Introducing new guard dog

[D Strickland]

Hi all,

 

I picked-up a 5 month old Pyr x Anatolian LGD last Friday. I introduced her to my existing 6 year old Pyr x Anatolian LGD. They get along great ... the sheep and goats love her .... she is not trying to jump the fence to leave ... all is good..

 

 

........Except that my existing LGD thinks that all the food belongs to him. He has a self-feeder which I fill once or twice a week ... He has his spot in the barn with a crate and food. I built a seperate area with food and crate for my pup LGD ... and no matter where I move this new area ... the existing LGD won't let her eat or get close to it... he now thinks that both self-feeders are his.

 

Anyone have any suggestions ???? Right now I'm feeding her morning and night. That's fine until it's pouring rain or 10 below ....

 

Thanks,

[juliepoudrier]

I don't know if this would help over the long term, but could you build her a sort of creep area, with access small enough that the adult LGD can't get in to get to the food, but she can? That won't change the food guarding issues, but at least for now would give her a safe place to eat where he doesn't have access.

 

J.

[Laura L]

I'd think about changing from a self feeder to actually going out and feeding every day just what they will eat. By the time it gets to where the weather will be 10 below, your new girl should be fine with getting fed once a day. I've got to stick around for about 10 minutes otherwise when I feed the oldest dog who wolfs down his food will chase the other 2 out of theirs.

Laura

[D Strickland]

Thanks ... I tried that but the old guy would guard the entrance ... LOL

 

 

I don't know if this would help over the long term, but could you build her a sort of creep area, with access small enough that the adult LGD can't get in to get to the food, but she can? That won't change the food guarding issues, but at least for now would give her a safe place to eat where he doesn't have access.

 

J.

[D Strickland]

I may just have to resort to that ... dang it...

 

 

I'd think about changing from a self feeder to actually going out and feeding every day just what they will eat. By the time it gets to where the weather will be 10 below, your new girl should be fine with getting fed once a day. I've got to stick around for about 10 minutes otherwise when I feed the oldest dog who wolfs down his food will chase the other 2 out of theirs.

Laura

[bcnewe2]

Mick would just guard the door that's to small for him to get in.

 

I feed my LGD once a day. I like to get my hands on her and do a quick visual of her. I check sheep once or more a day so it's not that much more. Even when it's 10 below or 100+.

 

With all the LGD's I've had (that's only 4) I've not prevented them from being guardy of their own food bowls. Not to me but to other dogs. That way I'm pretty sure they are all eating.

 

I think the best bet for now would be to feed her daily until she establishes herself. The older one might eventually get the picture if she decides to claim her dish or feeding spot.

 

Even Lil' Dew will lift a lip at Mick if he's trying to hone in on her dinner. That's acceptable in this household.

Guess it goes with feeding the LGD's manually, I get to reinforce I'm the food lady, never bite the hand that feeds!

At the moment Lilly will bark or snarl at the sheep (only time I"ve ever seen this behavior) if they are trying to eat her food. The old LGD's down in AR would snarl at each other but never the sheep. I had to stand around making sure the sheep didn't steal the food.

One old Ewe could always out smart me and find a way into the "creeps" I would build to keep them out of the food.

I"ve heard sheep can't crawl but no one told her that!

[juliepoudrier]

I actually feed mine twice a day too. I figure it doesn't hurt to check on her/get my hands on her, and I also know just how much she's eating, since a sick dog who's not eating might not be readily apparent with a self-feeder. Feeding the guard dog also makes it easy to check on the livestock at the same time.

 

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

double post.

[D Strickland]

My sheep and dogs are 14 miles away so it makes it a little more challenging on some days... But well worth it... I wish I could play with sheep and dogs all day .. every day..

 

Thanks,

 

 

I actually feed mine twice a day too. I figure it doesn't hurt to check on her/get my hands on her, and I also know just how much she's eating, since a sick dog who's not eating might not be readily apparent with a self-feeder. Feeding the guard dog also makes it easy to check on the livestock at the same time.

J.

[bcnewe2]

I've cut down to once a day feeding for the LGD. Black dogs get 2x's per day. I found the lgd not really interested in eating the second meal so it was going to sheep.

I look forward to messing with her that once a day. Even if just to tell her thanks for doing her job.

 

So Dave

With sheep 14 miles away, do you go once a day or less? Do you feel you miss things if you don't check on them once a day? I always worry if I can't at least eyeball everybody once daily but rarely do I find anything amiss. For me, it's the day I have to skip when emergencies seem to happen.

[D Strickland]

I go over at least once a day .. usually in the afternoon on my way home from work. If it stormed the night before or it's really hot I go over morning and night. I'm there at least twice a day on weekends. When the temperature cools down some I'll be there in the evenings also. The lady across the road is a vet and she keeps an eye on the place.

 

This is lease land ... We own land 45 mins east but there are no jobs out there ... we had to move closer to Tulsa for work ... my girls are both in High School now so I'm not moving for at least two years. This is the perfect setup for me right now.. later we will move back to our land, I'll retire and live off the money from my wife who's a nurse !!! LOL

 

 

 

So Dave

With sheep 14 miles away, do you go once a day or less? Do you feel you miss things if you don't check on them once a day? I always worry if I can't at least eyeball everybody once daily but rarely do I find anything amiss. For me, it's the day I have to skip when emergencies seem to happen.

[juliepoudrier]

So Dave

With sheep 14 miles away, do you go once a day or less? Do you feel you miss things if you don't check on them once a day? I always worry if I can't at least eyeball everybody once daily but rarely do I find anything amiss. For me, it's the day I have to skip when emergencies seem to happen.

Not Dave, but I do feel more comfortable checking them daily, even if it's a brief look. You can tell a lot just by looking over the pasture. For example, yesterday I saw a ewe lying down away from the rest of the flock. I had pulled the whole flock up the evening before to treat a different sheep and didn't note anything amiss then. But this ewe let me walk right up to her and didn't get up until I prodded her. I then saw that half of her udder was swollen, apparently mastitis. Stuff like that can go badly for the sheep pretty quickly if not caught early, so I'm glad I caught it, and I hope I was early enough.

 

When I used to keep sheep on two different properties in addition to my own it was indeed a pain to go check everything daily, but I also thought it was the safest thing to do.

 

Dave,

I may be making a trip out to Tulsa in the next few weeks-month.

 

J.

[D Strickland]

Let me know when you're in town and we'll work dogs .. or go for coffee.

 

I'm always ready and willing to work or talk dogs....

 

Dave S

 

 

Dave,

I may be making a trip out to Tulsa in the next few weeks-month.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Will do. I won't have dogs with me since I'm flying, but if there's time to see your dogs, that would be fun.

 

J.

[bcnewe2]

The lady across the road is a vet and she keeps an eye on the place.

 

That's gotta help with your worry. Not that she is watching real close but she could see if something drastic happened.

 

Unfortunatly I had my young neice watching the place for the weekend a while back. When I got home she told me how one lamb kept sleeping in the same place. After she left I checked and it was dead. She is a good girl and did/does a wonderful job watching sheep, dogs and everything else I had, I never told her cause I knew she would be totally upset. But I also worked it in the next time that if something was "sleeping" a long time in one place she shoudl go check on it.

 

I think I'd want to check on things everyday even if it meant an extra drive but around here I see so many horses out in pastures, and never see anyone checking on them.

 

So you live over an hour away due to work and your girls live back at home? That's a hard way to go, been there done that with DH several times but never close enough to actually see each other more than every few months.

[D Strickland]

My old "Chewy" Louie died in January but I still have my 5 year old BC I also have an Aussie that I just started training - she's 10 months old. I am looking for my next BC but I'm not in any rush ... the last 4 were a disappointment.

 

Are you coming to Tulsa for a job interview ?

 

 

Will do. I won't have dogs with me since I'm flying, but if there's time to see your dogs, that would be fun.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Are you coming to Tulsa for a job interview ?

Sort of. It's contract work, but they want to talk to me in person so we can discuss what needs to be done and how and also so I can meet everyone I'd be working with. It may turn into a long-term contract, but it's too soon to tell.

 

My brother and SIL live in Tulsa too. He does computer stuff for Albertson's and travels a lot, and she does HR stuff for Reasor's (?).

 

J.

[D Strickland]

Good deal ... best of luck to you ... I work at Verizon in Owasso ( 10 mins east of Tulsa ).

 

Call or email me ... let me know when you get to town..

 

 

Sort of. It's contract work, but they want to talk to me in person so we can discuss what needs to be done and how and also so I can meet everyone I'd be working with. It may turn into a long-term contract, but it's too soon to tell.

 

My brother and SIL live in Tulsa too. He does computer stuff for Albertson's and travels a lot, and she does HR stuff for Reasor's (?).

 

J.

[Bill Fosher]

If you're there every day anyway, switch to hand feeding. It's better for the dogs, it'll make them more effective guardians (they'll be guarding the sheep and not the self-feeder), and you'll be better able to get your hands on them when need be.

 

Five months is a little young to go to once a day feeding, but it would probably be okay.

 

I've kept sheep that far from home, and I know what a pain it is to go there when the weather is rotten or when the only thing you need to do is feed the guard dogs, but I think it's part of the deal.

[D Strickland]

Thanks Bill ... That's pretty much what I decided to do. I'll leave my old guy on the self feeder because that's what he's used to ... I'll keep the pup on 2 feedings per day until she turns 9 months old and then I'll switch to once a day. I never liked self feeders but my old guard dog was used to it when I got him so I left him on it.

 

 

 

If you're there every day anyway, switch to hand feeding. It's better for the dogs, it'll make them more effective guardians (they'll be guarding the sheep and not the self-feeder), and you'll be better able to get your hands on them when need be.

 

Five months is a little young to go to once a day feeding, but it would probably be okay.

 

I've kept sheep that far from home, and I know what a pain it is to go there when the weather is rotten or when the only thing you need to do is feed the guard dogs, but I think it's part of the deal.

[bcnewe2]

Five months is a little young to go to once a day feeding, but it would probably be okay.

 

I think mine were about 8 months and they let me know they didn't need the extra meal. But even at 5 months they were only nibbling on the second feeding. I felt it was more a socialization thing for me the the dogs. They are my best buds and love to see me but not so much that they feel the need to leave the sheep.

 

I've been discussing with a friend our differences on LGD's. She thinks you shouldn't handle them at all so they will stay with the sheep. I think they still need handling for those times you need to do something to them.

 

One of my ewes got her head stuck in the fence. I heard the dogs frantic bark. Ran down and saw the ewe really struggling to get out which was just sticking her more. Had I not known the dogs and been totally comfortable with them, I think they might not have let me get to the ewe. THey were barking and pulling on her butt trying to get her out. As soon as I came in the paddock they backed off and let me get her out. Then had to check her over to see she wasn't hurt.

 

Friend just lost a young ram to being stuck in the fence. SHe thinks the dog killed it. I think the dog might have accidently helped kill the ram but I think it was while trying to rescue it. Which in my mind it totally different than just killing. Same with lambs. One of my old dogs would steal new borns and keep them from bonding, so I had to supervise closely, friend lost a lamb to her lgd and now calls it a lamb killer. I think killing something by loving it to death can be dealt with easier than just a lamb killer. If you have no relationship to the dog, how you going to teach it not to get in trouble?

So that's one more reason I like to hand feed them, they love the food lady more than they would love someone just looking at them from afar.

 

JMO

[D Strickland]

My 6 month old is inhaling both meals .... we may have a parasite issue. She's never been wormed that I know so I'll worm her. How would I worm her or give her shots if she was never handled?

 

Most farmers believe that keeping their LGDs wild is the best idea ... I believe that their instincts will have them guard livestock no matter if they like you or not.

 

Any idea what is the best "broad-based" wormer for LGDs ? My working dogs get Fenbendazole 10% solution.

 

 

I think mine were about 8 months and they let me know they didn't need the extra meal. But even at 5 months they were only nibbling on the second feeding. I felt it was more a socialization thing for me the the dogs. They are my best buds and love to see me but not so much that they feel the need to leave the sheep.

 

I've been discussing with a friend our differences on LGD's. She thinks you shouldn't handle them at all so they will stay with the sheep. I think they still need handling for those times you need to do something to them.

 

JMO

[bcnewe2]

I love the product i use. It's WormX Plus by sentury, bought it on line cause it cost less but you can get it at petsmart or other places like that. HAs pyrantel pamoate/praziquantel, covers tape, round and hook. IT's chewable but when I tried to give it as a treat they just spit it out. So a bit of peanutbutter on it and down they go. What i like about it is that it's a one time treatment. Not 3 days in a row or even the 2 weeks later and I can vouch it works for tape. It's not heartworm preventive. I give ivermec orally once a month in some kind of food leftover. I hold the bowl while they eat the goods, that way I know they get the heartworm treatment.

 

Git the big dog WormX size for economy. I battled tape for ever. with this the issue is gone.

 

I just gave Lilly her booster shot. I had my son pet her and she never even noticed that I was sticking her. Much easier than black dogs who seem to be bothered by fiddling with them. You can hand feed her for a month or 2, then hit her with the shots. My vet sells me rabies for the big dog without having to bring her in, he knows I own her, plus he spayed her so he's comfortable with not doing the shot himself. I've also bought rabies vacs. at the feedmill, I know it's not legal but I also know they are protected and figured if they bit someone I'd deal with the aftermass. I keep the labels on the calendar so I have proof, not sure how safe that'd be in a lawsuite tho.

If she's not altered and you plan to do that, you could just wait till you bring her in and have him do everything.

 

With hand feeding them, I'm albe to groom them, treat them, and check them whenever I need to. All the guard dogs I've owned loved being brushed. That's a good time for shots and worming.

[D Strickland]

Thanks ... I'll try the WormX ... better than 3 consecutive days ...

 

 

I love the product i use. It's WormX Plus by sentury, bought it on line cause it cost less but you can get it at petsmart or other places like that. HAs pyrantel pamoate/praziquantel, covers tape, round and hook. IT's chewable but when I tried to

[juliepoudrier]

If she's inhaling her food, you can use the fenbendazole on her. I dose at 1 cc/5 lbs for five days and just mix it in my dogs' food bowls with their food (except for the really picky eaters who get it syringed down their throats). You can repeat in three weeks. Five days is supposed to take care of at least one type of tapeworm as well.

 

I do NOT believe in letting an LGD be wild. It doesn't need to be a pet, but there will be times when you might want to get your hands on the dog, so the dog ought to be trained to at least let you catch it and walk it on a leash. My LGD was one of those who was never handled. As a result, when the farmer sold his stock and dogs, this dog and one other couldn't be caught. They got left. Decent neighbors (mostly with horses) put food out for the dogs (they had been told the new owners of the farm had stock and would keep the dogs). Three months later, no new owners and animal control was called. A friend of mine went and got them (caught in a yard).

 

There are times when I still can't catch mine, and it could be an issue if she were injured or has escaped the pasture and needs to be caught (which actually happened a few times when she was still new to me). She absolutely refuses to get in a vehicle, and if I need to take her to the vet for anything, I have to load some sheep on the trailer and then load her. At least by feeding her twice a day, I have tamed her somewhat and she will usually let me catch her. But not always.

 

I don't think you do a dog any favors by not teaching it to at least be handled. They need vaccines, especially rabies, and I put topical flea/tick control on mine. I like to get my hands on her and make sure there isn't anything wrong that can't be seen from a distance.

 

ETA Kristen, if your dogs ever bite anyone you won't have a leg to stand on re: the rabies vaccine. If it was not given by a licensed vet, then no animal control is going to take the chance that the dog was not adequately vaccinated if it has come in contact with a rabid animal. The dog will be impounded and euthanized and tested for rabies. I do a lot of my own vaccinating, deworming, etc., but the one thing I always have the vet do is the rabies vaccine (that's the reason Maia was most recently loaded up with sheep and taken to the clinic--she was due for her rabies vaccination).

 

J.