training for stay command.

[Onix]

I noticed that a puppy doesnt have a long attention span. I want to start training him the stay command but wonder if it is too early?? He is about 8 weeks old now.

[Keegan's Mom]

I would work the stay command with limited distractions at first. Then work your way up. My pup is almost 18 months now and I am still working the stay command with him in different situations.

 

I started with a step back then forward, treat. I moved on to two steps back then forward, treat. If I went too fast for his development, he would follow me then I would repeat the prior steps until he was comfortable.

 

I think the earlier the better for training, but don't make your expectations for him unattainable or training won't be fun for him. Do NOT set him up for failure!!!!!

 

Good Luck.

[Tassie]

Good advice from Keegan?s Mom on training the stay ? please note the bit about not trying to go too fast. Each time the pup ?fails? you actually go backwards ? better to aim for almost 100% success, and to proceed very, very slowly.

 

More important than the stay at this stage is the recall ? not a formal one, but getting the pup into the habit of paying attention to his name ? looking back to you ? praise/treat him, coming quickly in to you when called, every time. As Shawna said in the other thread, the pup will do that well at this stage, so set it in concrete for later. (Incidentally, the light long line is great ? pup has independence in safety, and you retain control. Great for independent escapers as my little girl was.)

 

Walking nicely at your left hand side (approximately) and learning to focus on you are other important things to start teaching now ? again using positives.

 

Oh, and you can work on convincing the pup that you can remove/play with his food whenever you want to (though you will give it back), teaching him to ?trade? things he has for treats, and training him to accept handling for brushing etc.

 

You're right about the short attention span of a pup - remember little and often is good for training, and instantaneous responses (praise or otherwise)from you before he's forgotten what it was about!

[Shawna]

and training him to accept handling for brushing etc.

Good thing to mention! When my dogs were puppies I took time twice a day, every day, to handle them from top to bottom. I still do it here and there now that they're adults to make sure their isn't something nasty in their coats or some other problem I'm missing, like a lump or something. Yes I am paranoid, but had I caught a lump sooner one of my dogs wouldn't have died when she did.

 

I start with their heads and peel back lips and touch teeth and progress over the entire body including the tip of the tail and in between the toes. Be gentle and talk in a quiet reassuring voice the whole time. If the pup squiggles around simply hold him firmly (don't squeeze though) and don't talk until he relaxes except for maybe a quiet "shh, shh", then start the soft praises again and continue.

 

This can really pay off in the future if your dog injures itself. Your dog will be more likely to let you look at the injury and you will be less likely to get bitten by your frightened dog.

[Sue in France]

An 8 week old puppy is a baby. If you put the dam back with them they will run to her and try to suckle, jump up to her mouth for regurgitated food and follow her in a group. She will reprimand them by gently putting her mouth around their necks, heads etc. 8 weeks is the earliest a pup should be taken from its nest and the only thing you should be doing with it right now is geting to know it...playing with it and trying to gently remove it mentally and emotionally from its mother. You can interest it with a rolling ball (not bouncing...the pup shouldn't be jumping a lot right now), letting it get used to the smells in your yard (the pup's primary method or responding to stimuli is by smell and taste)and you should be trying to encourage those cranial nerve endings to connect properly by a lot of stimulation such as letting him chew on different textures, etc. The development of his brain isn't enough yet to respond to any "training" and it will only lead to a stressed dog and owner. I suggest spending the next 4 weeks just playing with him. 3 months is plenty early enough to start asking him to "obey". In fact you shouldn't have him out of your yard until he has had his second vaccinations at 12 weeks. If a recall is important for his safety, just forget leads etc, run away from him and while looking over your shoulder, encourage him to run with you. You are using the natural instinct that makes him run to his mother. Then stop and stoop down, hold your hands out and receive him with a caress. That is about all you can expect from an 8 week old pup.

Sue

[Shawna]

Sue,

 

I personally have never taught a stay command to a puppy this young although I've met people who have. I chose not to comment on that having no personal experience to draw from.

 

However, I disagree that a puppy can't learn other things at this age as long as it's all done as a game and there are no real corrections involved. A puppy learning to follow a tidbit of food into a sit or down position is excercising his mind and therefore "growing" mentally.

 

By asking him to drag a light cord he is in no way being traumatized, rather it will serve to make him more confident when more serious training begins to happen in a few months. Also it is true that a puppy that age will run toward you when you run away. However there are lots of things they can learn if you have a line to step on to stop forward movement. Words like wait or leave it. No corrections necessary - just stop the movement at the same time you say the word. The pup learns to associate the word with stopping and won't have to be corrected later when he's bigger, faster and more determined.

 

They have proven that anything that makes the brain excercise (think) while an animal/person is young, the smarter they will be when they are older. By training simple things (down, sit, and an informal come for example) as well as giving the pup tons of new experiences like you had said, you are growing the dogs ability to think.

[Sue in France]

Hi Shawna,

I have no problem with those who wish to curb their dogs at any suitable age..we have our experience, those of others and those in well researched books to draw on and I in no way have the Only Right Way. As you know (grin) my emphasis is on working dogs on stock and I don't ever teach a sit anyway. A stay is difficult for a young, wriggly and active pup.

The only thing I am concerned about is if too much top-down training at such a young age will extinguish the fire and joi de vivre of any young dog. The most important...THE most important thing... is to encourage the confidence of the dog, and through that confidence he complies with commands and requests, not because he is told to do something and does it out of fear.

I have a 10 week old pup here I have decided to keep. He is just recognising his name and will come to my recall if there isn't anything more interesting elsewhere. TBH I am happy he is curious. I don't have a collar let alone a lead on him, take him for walks along the road and he stays by my side because I am the Boss/Leader, not because he is physically attached to me. And it is this relationship which I think will encourage him to work WITH me, not FOR me.

But as I aid, each to his own.

Sue

[Shawna]

I agree with you in that a pup this young should not be forced into compliance. That would shatter confidence. And I also agree with the point about having the dog work with you as opposed to for you. A dog that does what you ask because it wants to is a beautiful thing.

 

I don't teach a stay command in the type of obedience I do. And for a tiny puppy I don't expect it to hold a sit or a down either. I simply lure the puppy into position with a treat or toy then immediately give a release command to counter it. It just automatically happens that the pup learns to wait for the release word. Around three months old I eliminate all treats as the puppy by this time usually shows a very good understanding of the words I'm using. Then I switch to body language to help the transition from treats to no treats with rarely having to ever use more than a verbal "uh,uh" as a correction. Any time I'm teaching the dog a new command that he has not experienced before, I return to using treats or toys until the dog understands the word. It's unfair to correct a dog into doing somethng when the dog has no understanding of what you want. That'll shatter confidence and trust very fast. (The exception is when the dog is doing something unacceptable but then the correction must "fit the crime". This is the reason I come down hard on older pups and adults for dangerous behaviors. If you come down hard the first time, chances are there won't be a second time. An adult and older pup is old enough to accept correction without falling apart.)

 

With a good understanding of what is expected I can now add a few mild corrections to lengthen the down if I want. Because of all the preliminary work the biggest correction the pup is likely to ever get is a tug and an "uh,uh" if he tries to get up before the release word is given. This is all combined with the use of games, praise and cuddle time mixed in between short lessons. Before you know it you have a dog that can hardly wait to do what ever you ask or learn more commands and yet isn't dependant on needing treats for learning because your praise and presence are more than enough reward.

 

Darcy was trained this way beginning at eight weeks. She is also a very soft dog. The combination of the two means that she has very rarely needed a physical correction ever. And the attitude this kind of training creates can be summed up by what a client of mine who loved to watch Darcy work said, her words were "She's beautiful to watch. She worships you."

 

You can only get this attitude if the dog is working with you, not beaten into submission.

 

All this said, I agree there is no one right way. It has to be what works for the individual and their dog and of course the final purpose of the relationship will come into play as well (herding vs. obedience for example).