Puppy pinning other puppies??

[Guest echoica]

Rikku is 6 months old (on February 28). Female. Unaltered (but soon to be). Purebred Border Collie. Apparently, from a breeder that turns out good pups - although I rescued her from someone else at 12 weeks as she was about to be knocking on the SPCA door. Had a lot of fear when I first got her (she was contained for the first month with the previous owner from 8-12 weeks without vaccinations, socialization, anything) but she overcame that in days with some socialization when I got her. Now she seems to be a very confident dog - I haven't seen her tail between her legs since - maybe cocky. Far beyond basic obedience in her training already - heels off lead (with distractions), solid recall, etc. She also receives adequate mental (tricks, obedience) and physical (running, walks, play) stimulation. BUT...

 

She likes to pin down puppies. Like get on top of them, hold them down. Whilst growling and generally looking like a big, mean bully. Hackles up. No biting. No barking. Unprovoked it would seem although I would have to say all the puppies seem to share the same style of wiggle-bum excitement. And I have to emphasize this...ONLY ON PUPPIES. Like the 2-3 month variety. No problems with my other dog, humans, cats (I have 2 that she adores and treats very respectfully), other grown dogs (small or large) or older puppies.

 

I think I may have posted about this before because this is not something new with her...but it just seems so baffling because I am no newb to dog training and she is so young still. Well socialized with all types of dogs - yes, even other puppies. Redirection does work but only if I catch the outburst before it happens - which isn't always the case. But I am curious what the cause is more than anything. So that I can nip it in the bud more effectively.

 

What do you all think?

[Aussiedawgs]

It's hard to say but her socialization history - no socialization with other puppies 8-12 weeks might have a lot to do with it. But, it is hard to know what she is doing without seeing the situation and the body language of both her and the puppy she is doing it too. Maybe you can get it on video?

 

Hope

[bcnewe2]

With her only doing it to puppies, sounds like it's a dominance issue, she is picking on dogs she knows she can boss around.

Dew will do that to anyone she thinks she can get away with. I know her issues have come from being brought up in a house o' bitches and Mick. But I never let her get away with it. She gets a correction each time. Hasn't really deterred her but I think that's cause I rarely get her out anymore due to where we live.

 

Last time I had her at a friends she started out bitchy then got to the point of ignoring the other dogs, then we were working on wanting to join in the other pack's play. Had I stayed a few days longer she'd have really made some good progress.

She's fine here cause she fits into my lifestyle but if that changed she'd take some work.

 

I don't think I'd be letting you young pup get away with much. It sets the theme for later in life.

 

JMHO

[BCjetta]

Our male aussie does this too with young puppies, and also adolescent dogs - especially hyper ones. He didn't when he was younger. I think he's doing it to be bossy and pushy because with these puppies, he knows he will win. I think he wants to be dominant all around, but lacks the confidence with adult dogs (if one snaps at him he backs right off) so he makes a big show of how tough and mean he is with puppies. I don't want hubby to get after him for growling because it is a good signal in general so we try to either not let him get that close to puppies, or if he growls, pick him up so he can't continue to be a bully. I don't want to get mad at him because I'm afraid it will make him start snapping etc at them instead of growling. I'm not sure what else to do when he is acting like this. He only does it until he's assured that he is infact the boss - then he wants to play.

[AmandaMJL]

The place where I understand she came from typically sells the pups VERY young. Some have gone to their homes as early as 5 to 5.5 weeks (which would also make me wonder how young they are when they are taken from their mother?). Do you know how old she was when she was picked up? I also know that alot of the pups from these "breeders" have dominance issues, not aggressive, but dominant and need to be in appropriate homes (which she is with you, thank doG!). I have however, seen great things come from proper training and socialization (as with most breed/dog) so good on you for addressing it asap. It's just good to know as much as you can about this to know exactly what you are dealing with.

 

So that all said, does she do it immediately upon meeting puppies? Or is it after a play/sniff? Those factors would give me the info to decide how I would correct the problem.

 

I can also likely get you in touch with another owner of a female from the same place (she's about 1.5 to 2 years now) - she went into rescue at 3 months - she's an awesome girl! Her owner may be able to give you some specific pointers. She'd be located close to you, I'd say.

[Guest echoica]

The place where I understand she came from typically sells the pups VERY young. Some have gone to their homes as early as 5 to 5.5 weeks (which would also make me wonder how young they are when they are taken from their mother?). Do you know how old she was when she was picked up? I also know that alot of the pups from these "breeders" have dominance issues, not aggressive, but dominant and need to be in appropriate homes (which she is with you, thank doG!). I have however, seen great things come from proper training and socialization (as with most breed/dog) so good on you for addressing it asap. It's just good to know as much as you can about this to know exactly what you are dealing with.

 

So that all said, does she do it immediately upon meeting puppies? Or is it after a play/sniff? Those factors would give me the info to decide how I would correct the problem.

 

I can also likely get you in touch with another owner of a female from the same place (she's about 1.5 to 2 years now) - she went into rescue at 3 months - she's an awesome girl! Her owner may be able to give you some specific pointers. She'd be located close to you, I'd say.

 

she gets a sniff in first...then loses it. once she loses it once with a particular puppy she does it again and again if she runs into the same pup later - even up to a week later (one of these pups live in my building). but if i give her a correction to leave it, she stops and will play ok. she actually listens to me VERY WELL. i rarely have to say a command twice or raise my voice. but i never know which pup she is going to decide to pin so for me now i have been a bit more proactive in redirecting her attention before she even goes near young pups. but is that really teaching her anything? hmmmm maybe just to leave puppies alone. but she is a puppy and she should be socializing too. but i don't need her traumatizing any more puppy owners just so i can correct her in the moment. you know?...

 

on another note related to dominance, i do find she is crazy over food too. while she is not showing any guarding with me as i have trained her to sit/stay for it and i won't give her anything if she is snappy about it and she always has to work for it (tricks, whatever)...she eats it so fast it's like it's the end of the world...or starving to death. she never drools but when she is waiting for the food she makes a puddle and looks like a lunatic. like seriously...her eyes go all red and she looks like she is going to foam like she has rabies or something!!! she actually chokes for a bit after she is done because she ate so fast. i fed her by hand a few times now and she is slowing down a bit. but she also knows when she is done to leave the kitchen so casey can finish - he is a very danty and slow eater lol.

 

she likes to hoard toys as well. and steal them and taunt other dogs (including casey) with them in her mouth. she plays fine with casey but she is always taking the toys from him. casey usually lets her so i have stepped in a few times and made her drop it and leave it and i give it back to him. i also give them individual play time apart - rikku in the bedroom crate with some toys and casey in the living room to do whatever. if casey really wants it (like a new bone) he lets her know with a quick-almost-could-miss-it growl/snap and she leaves him alone. but i wish he would do it more often because he really lets her get away with TOO MUCH (but casey is SUPER SUBMISSIVE). cause even sometimes when he won't let her have the toy she starts rolling around whining or incessantly stares (it's actually kind of cute lol) and then he GIVES IN!!! so much for the dog teaching the puppy manners don't get me wrong...casey and rikku adore one another and get along awesome.

 

i am thinking she may have been taken away from the mom and pups too early indeed. but according to the girl i got her from she got her from the breeder a month before i took her in (which would have put it at 8 weeks because I got her at 12 weeks from the girl). but maybe she just said a month to round it off and really it was a month and a half *shrugs*. it's like she hasn't learned how to 'be' with other dogs properly. but her bit inhibition is ok.

 

i am not toooooo worried about all of this...i know how to deal with these things as they happen. she is a really sweet dog. very loving and friendly. just high strung and kind of a cocky confident. but i wish i could do something that would extinguish the puppy pinning behaviour entirely. which might be too optimistic...it might always be a management thing with her cause she is kind of a bully...?! i think too when i get her into some dog sports or recreational stock work she will have something else to focus on and maybe help her chill out too. as much as hiking in the woods off leash and structure walking on leash drains her physically (and i honestly, don't want to TURN HER INTO a dog that requires countless hours of exercise) and the tricks and obedience drain her mentally...maybe she just might need a little extra something different too. maybe not, i dunno. she is pretty calm otherwise...

[Jedismom]

but i wish i could do something that would extinguish the puppy pinning behaviour entirely. which might be too optimistic...it might always be a management thing with her cause she is kind of a bully...?!

 

Cadi is 3.5 yrs. old now, but when she was 6 mo. old (rescued her at 6 mo.) she rolled and pinned a doberman twice her size. I thought it was cute at the time, but now I realize it was the emergence of what I like to call, her bossy personality. Rikku's behavior sounds very much like Cadi. She does the same things to Jedi and he lets her. They get along fine. I have not been able to change her personality, it's who she is, but I manage her so that things stay fair around the pack. We foster dogs and most of the time she ignores the fosters, except to let them know with her body language when they first start interacting, that she's the Queen. So far, everyone's accepted that. It is harder however, when she is around young dogs or puppies that don't have what she considers good manners. She takes it upon herself to correct them. Barely ruffles their fur, but sounds and looks very scary. I do not take her to dog parks for this reason. Nobody really appreciates the "fun police" when they're trying to have fun.