Mojo Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Hi everyone, is this a new topic forum for posting herding videos? If I am in the wrong section, please forgive me. I just wanted to show you Mojo's latest video progress on sheep, as well as some videos of me learning to work the very talented started young imported Border Collie, Bean (not mine) with whom I have also been taking lessons, so that I can improve my handling and help Mojo more efficiently. I'll say right off the bat that Mojo's videos are probably not that great by most people's standards, and Bean's videos are, LOL, but I'm still very proud of both dogs!! MOJO videos: (Mojo has been on sheep anywhere from 2-8 times a month over the past year) --December: learning "look back" and "there": The "look back" was definitely not planned, LOL: I seized the opportunity to introduce it when there was a particularly recalcitrant ewe in our group that did not want to stay with the others, but the amazing thing was that Mojo somehow not only managed to figure out what the heck I meant by that command, but ALSO executed it....hooray! (As an interesting side note, however, I worked Bean on the same group of sheep only moments later, and HE did not have ANY trouble whatsoever keeping this one cranky ewe in line, LOL.) Mojo also seemed to figure out where "there" is on balance, and it is pretty comical to see him trying to puzzle it out on video, but the fact remains is that somehow, he DID figure it out! --January: on LIGHT sheep for the first time, round pen....UNEDITED footage (ack): As disorganized and humiliating as this session felt at the time, I am glad it is on video, because I can now see that I missed many opportunities to force Mojo out wider and slow him down because I did not insist strongly enough, but I was just so confused with sheep and dog whirling about it was all I could do to stay upright. I will definitely try harder the next lesson, if we can get light sheep again! ------------------------------- BEAN videos: (Bean has been on sheep less than 6 times in his life prior to my working him, so he's up to about 7-8 total times now) --December: my very first opportunity to work with this talented young dog, who, as I noted above, does not experience any of the trouble keeping one ewe in line that Mojo did with the same sheep: --January, first run of the day: on LIGHT sheep for the first time, round pen....and pretty much perfect, right out of the gate (yay): --January, second run of the day: already in a larger square pen with a larger flock of light sheep, learning his flank commands, and still in complete control: ----------------------------- And now for my commentary! I know Mojo isn't the most talented dog, but I'm still very proud of how far he's come, since no one really thought (that, as some kind of mix) he would even get as far as he has, and he even continues to do a little bit better each time we have a lesson, and has not really taken any steps back since we began our training journey, which is pretty incredible! About a month or two ago, we think something inexplicably "clicked" for Mojo, and ever since, he has really been pretty consistent at being able to sustain his interest in working for the entire duration of his 45-minute lesson without losing focus, getting tired, or doodling at all--I am actually having to call him off to give him breaks now, since he is not quitting of his own accord--and for him, that is HUGE. Previously, as some of you may recall, around last summer, we had gotten to the point where we were working in the larger square pen on a big group of heavier sheep, and Mojo was doing fairly well at keeping those in reasonable control, which is back when I had posted that I thought he was going to be ready to start trialing in ASCA or AHBA soon....but now that he's provided us with more raw material with which we can train, and thus seems much happier and more able to take the training pressure, we have essentially gone back to the beginning (round pen) and have started trying to improve his technique, like insisting on getting him to widen out and slow down, and so we are working hard on that. This past week, we even started trying to teach Mojo his directional flank commands (not that I think he truly understands those yet, particularly since he still has a tremendous amount of trouble going in the "away" direction). It's actually pretty strange, because in the very, very beginning of our sheep work, Mojo had no trouble going in either direction, but at some point, he just "decided" that the "away" flank felt wrong to him, and ever since, he goes "bye" (clockwise) whenever he can. I am now trying to set up situations where I can force him "away" (e.g., close to the fence), and that has been working a bit better, although he is apparently still so uncomfortable in that direction that he ends up stopping short on that flank in order to go back clockwise, and/or diving at the sheep and blowing them apart in the "away" direction rather than coming around smoothly...but we're working on it. The biggest challenge of all was this past Saturday's lesson, since lambing time is apparently now in full swing at the ranch where we train, and the big, woolly, "knee-knocker" sheep that we usually get are largely unavailable, so it was Mojo's first opportunity in a long time to work very light sheep.....and personally, I felt it was a complete and utter disaster at the time, LOL, but after watching our unedited video over and over, I actually think that it wasn't as bad as it seemed, since Mojo mostly managed to keep the light sheep together (no small feat for him!) and kept bringing them to me (albeit running), and he even gave me some relatively instant "downs" when I had the momentary clarity of thought to ask for them (more because *I* needed a mental break from the sheep and dog whirling about, not because it had occurred to me to try and stop him on balance, or anything). Of course, in contrast, Bean handled the group of three light sheep pretty much perfectly from the get-go (right out of his kennel and into the pen, he had them walking and in control), and pretty soon, he was able to keep them balanced between him and me without pushing them past me (and I think that any pushing past was more due to my not giving him the proper signals, rather than his inability to keep them balanced)!! In fact, he did so well that on his second run, our trainer moved us into the larger square pen and gave us an even larger group of light sheep, which Bean handled with equally incredible finesse. I am just so impressed by the unbelievable self-control this young dog has....for example, I've never ever seen him lose focus and try to split the sheep, but even more amazingly, he even knows when to stop himself (without any commands from me!!) when he senses that the sheep don't need any more pressure from him!! I think Bean in particular was a great choice of dog to help me learn: because he is so attuned to his handler, Bean responds to every little twitch of my flag and every little turn of my body, which has made me so much more aware of what I am doing at any given time, which is fabulous. I honestly feel that working Bean is like driving a finely tuned Ferrari, which is such a thrill for me!!!! It was this last lesson in the big pen on the light sheep that for the first time, I was able to feel JUST what a delicate balance it is between dog, stock, and handler...I felt if I just breathed the wrong way, it would all blow apart!!!!!! The cutest thing is that OFF sheep, Bean is also the most delightful, happy puppy, and wiggles all around and loves to snuggle and be petted, but the instant he catches sight of the sheep, it is so breathtaking to watch him, literally, HIT the deck into a classic crouch with a full-on stare, and from that moment on, he is all about business, until I call him off the sheep, and then he instantly transforms back into a happy, wiggly puppy!!! I am really grateful to his owner for the privilege of letting me work such a lovely dog--he is helping me, and in turn, Mojo, so much!!!!!! Sigh...I think Bean is a living testament to what excellent Border Collie working breeding can produce, because he works so well, even in SPITE of my being a complete novice at the helm!!!!!! The only thing I feel bad about is that Mojo gets soooooooooooooo jealous when I work with Bean (and yes, that is, unfortunately, Mojo loudly complaining throughout Bean's videos), but our trainer thinks that is a GOOD thing to keep Mojo's interest level as high as possible!! Anyway, besides completely cementing my fascination with stockdog handling, the best news of all for Mojo and me is that a year's worth of sheep time finally seems to have accomplished what it was that I wanted when we first set out on this journey together: we may actually have succeeded in *mostly* eliminating his leash reactivity! Mojo can now pretty much ignore other dogs and people when we are at the ranch!!! I used to time/arrange our lessons very carefully to make sure that we went at non-peak hours so as to avoid running into other dogs, but for example, we had FIVE dogs and handlers watching our lesson this past week, and a couple of the dogs would bark at Mojo while he was working, as well as when we walked by to take a break, and Mojo was not only able to keep working without hesitation when he was in the pen, but he was ALSO able to walk blithely by on-leash out of the pen without a glance in their direction, as if they weren't there!!!!! There was even one week that we had a lesson while there was an AGILITY TRIAL happening simultaneously at the ranch, and Mojo walked by the agility field, with all its barking dogs and nervous handlers, as if none of it was happening!!! Similarly, when we were watching some other dogs' lessons, Mojo was able to lie down and watch quietly (this is, of course, with me by his side--he definitely still can't watch the sheep quietly by himself, such as when I am working Bean) without getting upset at seeing the dogs and sheep moving around, which was unbelievable! Better still, this all appears to have translated off of sheep to our normal lives, as well: Mojo has been so much more relaxed just walking around and passing other dogs on-leash on the street without paying any attention to them at all, and is really able to ignore the vast majority of them, which is something I had scarcely hoped to dream would ever happen one day!!!!!! So, super YAY for that!! Well, I hope that you all will enjoy this latest update from us!! Hopefully, there will be further good news to come!! Our new GSD, Colonel Mustard (the name "Mustard" just ended up sticking, LOL) is doing pretty well, too--I've even toyed with the idea of bringing him to try his paws at sheep, too, but he really is very old, and it might be too much excitement for him. Since I don't have any real intentions of pursuing stock work with him, perhaps it's better not to start. In any case, he definitely would need to gain a lot more weight and strength first before we seriously consider it, but you never know! In any case, I will leave you with a funny photo of the big goof's first Christmas with our family, sharing his new humongous bed with Mojo: Sincerely, Koi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Good to hear from you, and keep plugging away. One thing, it looks to me like Mojo (like your trainer says) is keen enough to take some pressure, and if he is, you should try and prevent him doing those "drive bys"- where he will run up and bark, and then leave. He may just need time in a smaller area, to get him comfortable with being close to the sheep. Also, beware of the flag stick, when you hit it on the ground, that may just amp him up- it doesn't look to me like it is accomplishing much. When he goes to dive in, you need to be there just before he does it, with your body- or have him on a line- and stand up tall and straight and make it clear that no shenanigans will be allowed. He's ready to move past zipping and diving. I know you have been working hard with him, so I just thought I would make a few suggestions, based on my personal experience Working with Bean will be very good with you, and will allow you to feel the comfort that exists when a dog is comfortable doing the work... Bad sentence, eh?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Koi, Thanks for sharing your videos! I agree with Julie and Robin, it looks like Mojo has developed a keen enough interest in the sheep that you can put a bit more pressure on him to show a little more self control and not buzz the sheep so much. Having your timing down and seeing it when it's starting to happen (his body language will change) and catching it before it is already happening helps. Getting good timing is much easier said than done, I've learned. Enjoy working with both of them and apply what you can learn from Bean's responsiveness and slower pace to situations when you're working with Mojo. I know how hard it can be when dog and sheep are whirling and swirling and you need to give the dog a Lie-Down-Dammit-So-I-Can-Think! command. By being able to process things in a bit slower motion with Bean you can hopefully start to see when similar things are happening with Mojo. Keep at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Posted January 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi Julie and Megan! It's very nice to hear from you both, too, and thank you so much for watching our videos, and for your kind constructive comments. I definitely appreciate your input!!! (And LOL, Megan, you sure nailed it with the "Lie-down-dammit-so-I-can-think" command! ) Anyway, I'm glad that you both think that Mojo is ready to develop some more self control and make some more progress...now I've just got to figure out how to help get him there. I tried watching over my videos while envisioning the body positioning and timing (on my part) that you both suggested, and I think I see how I am missing a lot of opportunities to push him out wider around the sheep by giving up too much ground and walking backwards all the time (I think I am just hoping to get the fetch and not worrying about pushing him out), and thus, I am not walking into Mojo's space enough. That definitely makes sense. As Julie said, I also agree that my use of the flag does not seem to be accomplishing much. My trainer has gotten on me before about the fact that I kind of "point" it in the direction I want Mojo to go, rather than using it to block his trajectory, so I am definitely trying to work on changing that...my best guess at an explanation is that 20+ years of lunging horses in a circle with a whip has confused the issue for me when I get into the round pen and a whip-like implement is placed in my hand, LOL: I know I am supposed to put the flag in the dog's eye, as opposed to trailing the whip quietly behind a horse and driving him forward, but I think my equine muscle memory ends up clashing with what I know I am supposed to do in this herding situation, and so I think I end up "quietly trailing the flag at the dog's head," LOL, which is apparently completely ineffectual. I think it is both a good and a bad thing that Bean nevertheless responds to every little twitch of the flag that I make (like if he is trying to head when he should be staying on his fetch, I just *start* to move the flag over to block him, and poof, he's already corrected himself!!), since that allows me to get away with just very slight gestures with the flag, but since Mojo obviously needs much more firm physical gestures to evoke a response, I think I need to go into our sessions concentrating more on that (and, as we discussed above, a more firm body positioning, also) to push him out much wider. I am still a bit confused, though, regarding the fetch part of it: so, to get him slower on the actual fetch, when he is bringing the sheep at a run, do I still walk into him and push him out wider, essentially pushing him off balance, and then only allow him come to balance when he is slower? Or do I give him a "down" command when he reaches balance and then let him up to fetch when he is calmer? Or are we hoping that once he goes out and around wider in the first place, the SHEEP will slow down in response because they feel less pressure from him, and as a result, HE will slow down because he will eventually realize he doesn't need to run?? I can't think of what else I could be doing there. Any further thoughts would be most welcome!! Thank you again for watching and commenting on our work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 What will help the most, is getting Mojo off the sheep. Once he is off the sheep, he can think, you can think, and you can progress. If he continues diving in, and zipping them, he's not going to be able to do any sort of thinking. I may have some video you can see the difference in being too close, and correctly off, on the same young dog. You will see a GIGUNDO difference in everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Posted January 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 What will help the most, is getting Mojo off the sheep. Once he is off the sheep, he can think, you can think, and you can progress. If he continues diving in, and zipping them, he's not going to be able to do any sort of thinking. I may have some video you can see the difference in being too close, and correctly off, on the same young dog. You will see a GIGUNDO difference in everything. Thank you for the additional input, Julie! What you said definitely makes sense. Okay, I'll push really hard to get him further off the sheep the next time we go. Hopefully I'll be able to get new video of this attempt, as well. I would really love to see your videos, if you can find them!! Thank you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Just be mindful, that you put pressure on, get the desired response, and take it off, and let him work. If it is all pushing him off, it can be very demotivating. I will look for the vids, when my neck and shoulder come back to normal that is! Thank you for the additional input, Julie! What you said definitely makes sense. Okay, I'll push really hard to get him further off the sheep the next time we go. Hopefully I'll be able to get new video of this attempt, as well. I would really love to see your videos, if you can find them!! Thank you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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