Alicia Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Cheyenne came to me a couple months ago as a stray. Long story, but after fostering her twice she is now mine. Chey is a great dog, she wants to please, is very devoted to me and is smart, smart, smart. I've exposed her to the sheep 3 times. Everytime has gotten increasingly more aggressive. She doesn't herd she chases and bites. She's got a lot of interest and drive but she is TOO aggressive for working these sheep, my friend won't allow it if she is drawing blood, which she has once now. I've spoken with her previous owner and she comes from working parents and I think she's got the drive to do it but i dont know what to do to stop her from being so aggressive. She calls off if I yell at her, or say her name sternely rather, but I don't want to discourage bite as she'll need it on cattle someday. Help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Have you taken her to a professional for training? That would be my first suggestion, someone who is a competent and capable trainer, not just a "hobby-herder trainer". I have absolutely no idea what level of experience you or your friend have but it sounds like you need experienced, capable assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I have an ACD as well and herd with him. They are very different than Border Collies when training; More sensitive (ie more liekly to turn off) but way more grippy without the natural sense of balance. Find yourself a trainer that is either an accomplished BC trainer that will work with other breeds or someone that specializes loose eyed breeds with drive. I had my cattle dog on a long line for quite some time and he had a drop dead stop. That saved us from many a bust up. Their philosophy is ...if i do it this way, maybe a bit faster would be better! Good luck, they can turn out nicely but it is some amount of work. I wouldn't give my guy up for anything..and my old ACD was a great sheep dog...just very different to train. Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'll echo the trainer advice. I have numerous ACD's, the longer you allow them to keep thinking that they are right by physically taking hold of the livestock the harder it will be to get them to offer something else. IMO, the bite you are seeing is not the same as the bite you want when they need to move livestock that refuses to move, if the stock is yeilding or trying to yeild it should not be bit. Some of our ACD's want to bite anything that moves, teaching them what is acceptable and unacceptable can be challenging. Some lines can be sensitive but then also stubborn, kinda the "if you correct me I won't do it but then again I won't do anything, if I can't do it my way it's no way and I'm going to sit on the porch." If you encourage them to offer something they go back to what they want to do, rather then offering something different. For some you really have to work hard to set them up so that they only thing they can do easily is the right thing, I do alot of cord work with ours, partly for the safety of the sheep until they learn to properly respect the livestock. It's less of a problem working them on cattle, the cattle will often times bring the point home to them that what they are doing is unacceptable, but we have had some that were even overly rough for cattle. Good luck Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks for the help guys! I don't have a trainer as I can't afford it at this time (I'm 23 and work as a vet assistant not exactly the biggest income lol) and I'm not looking to trial her or anything just something to do. I know I can do it and would rather do it myself but if I feel in over my head I will stop trying and seek pro help. I'm located in Ellensburg, WA She's only barely 7 months right now and I am starting to question whether she's mature enough to handle that kind of training yet. So.. I think I'm going to let her grow up a bit first and work on other things, such as her down and try again, with a line, when she's matured some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Does anyone know of a board specifically aimed at ACDs or other loose eyed breeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Does anyone know of a board specifically aimed at ACDs or other loose eyed breeds? There are a couple of yahoo groups for ACDS; ACD herding is one; What I would do with him is to put him/her on a long line; work far enough away from the stock that he doesn't start the diving in chasing thing; Work on a nice pace and lie down; Be consistent with enough pressure to make him/her do it without turning them off; If they sulk and want to leave, you have the long line; wait it out they won't stop working ...it's all a ploy to get their own way! Check out Lynn Leach's sight (google her) in British columbia; She has a good video about working loose eyed breeds. They work really nicely after they figure out that you are really in charge and their bratty and/or sucky behaviour wont' get them what they want...which is chasing like lunatics. 7 months old is super young for these guys, they take way long to mature; work on their manners outside of sheep; don't take the instinct out of them by over obediencing (is that a word) but consistency and a super good lie down will get you out of trouble with them. Feel free to PM me if you have questions Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Cynthia: That was just about the best post I have seen wrt acd and training. There are a couple of yahoo groups for ACDS; ACD herding is one; What I would do with him is to put him/her on a long line; work far enough away from the stock that he doesn't start the diving in chasing thing; Work on a nice pace and lie down; Be consistent with enough pressure to make him/her do it without turning them off; If they sulk and want to leave, you have the long line; wait it out they won't stop working ...it's all a ploy to get their own way! Check out Lynn Leach's sight (google her) in British columbia; She has a good video about working loose eyed breeds. They work really nicely after they figure out that you are really in charge and their bratty and/or sucky behaviour wont' get them what they want...which is chasing like lunatics. 7 months old is super young for these guys, they take way long to mature; work on their manners outside of sheep; don't take the instinct out of them by over obediencing (is that a word) but consistency and a super good lie down will get you out of trouble with them. Feel free to PM me if you have questions Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Thanks bunches guys! I haven't been working much on obedience with her except just the basic sit, chill out, here and were working on down. When I get a good down on her and she matures some we'll try sheep again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appyridr Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks bunches guys! I haven't been working much on obedience with her except just the basic sit, chill out, here and were working on down. When I get a good down on her and she matures some we'll try sheep again. Good plan, put her up til she is a year old. An ACD between 8-10mos. is a teenager & at a the time when they really will challenge you to see who is going to be boss(if they haven't already established that lol). For the next 6mos. she may test you on & off numerous times to see how much you will enforce your will; quit and go to gate, sniff & eat sheepshit etc. Don't ever let her get away with it; remember this breed was bred to take a licking and keep on ticking. Most aren't near as sensitive as they try to portray unless they've been allowed that as house dog/pets too. Also don't forget, they aren't deaf so don't need yelling at, just determination. If you say lie down, don't accept anything else. I would not use a long line(except to be dragged as an aid to catching her) but instead work in a round pen or somewhere small enough that you can protect the sheep for the first couple weeks. Once you can get her circling on the perimeter of the pen and not diving in, them move to a bigger area. My Wyatt was smart enough to know when he was on a line and behaved perfectly. Turn him loose forget it. He never gripped sheep so, as a newbie, I allowed him to dive in & split which became a bad habit near impossible to break. However by the time he was two, I had a good handle him and competed in numerous arena trials against all Border Collies. He didn't win much but he wasn't out of place. All of his faults were a result of my inexperienced learning curve. If I were to train him now after 5 years of working Border Collies, the end result would be much better. Beginners who don't know sheep have a near impossible task to train a dog without experienced help. Sharon Simmons is an Aussie judge/trainer? in the Ellensburg area and there is another good group of all-breed folks in Spokane as well as Olympia. W.Washington State is full of all breed herding activity with trials and clinics going year round. Lynn Leach of Hope, BC can be found at: http://www.downriver.org/ and the yahoo group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/downriver/ My ACD, Wyatt is featured on both of Lynn's instruction videos & the cover of the first one: we did lots of 'how not to do....' stuff. lol I also own the ACDherding Yahoo group previously mentioned: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/acdherders/ This is also a good resource site for all-breed herding: http://www.herdingontheweb.com/index.html cheers Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted December 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Thanks Lani! Thats some great advice. Chey and I are learning our down and she has tried testing me a bit lately but I think were through it, nothing major. I have heard that there is a gal here that does training, it may be Sharon Simmons but I cant remember for sure and I know the gal I was told about does mainly Aussies so it probably is. I'm hoping to be able to work with her with Chey but it wont be until Cheys a bit older she's not ready yet. Thanks so much I'll check out those sites! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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