Does your dog glow?

[Frogs & Dogs]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here and I have a question for people who do agility and/or frisbee with their BC:

 

My dog and I took a frisbee class recently and it was recommended that we do x-rays before getting our dog into these sports with any kind of seriousness. I got a recommendation from the instructor on which vet in the area could do a good x-ray with proper positioning for a reasonable price. Yesterday we had the required pre-x-ray appointment and the vet pretty much laughed me out of the office. Said that they'd take all the x-rays I want, but it was a waste of money on a healthy young dog.

 

Anyone here care to agree or disagree? Have you done x-rays? If so, what of: hips, knees, elbows, shoulders, back, neck, other?

 

My main reasoning for wanting x-rays is to make sure there isn't anything structurally wrong with my dog before we start doing any serious jumping or other strenuous activity. I would hate to get involved and then regret it down the line. Of course, the vet has a point: x-rays aren't cheap and they're unlikely to find much wrong at her age.

 

Here's a bit more about us:

I adopted Kit from a shelter about 7 months ago. She's around 14 months now. She's a BC mix (pointer, I think?), but her personality is all BC - she's got a mean herding instinct along with a frisbee/ball obsession. She does have the nose of a hound, though, meaning she still gets distracted pretty easily. She picks up on new commands quickly and our trick routines are getting a little old. As I don't have any sheep for her to herd, I'd like to get her into frisbee and agility. She loves all people and all dogs, will do anything for a treat, fears nothing on earth, and has spring-loaded legs.

[Root Beer]

Oh, it's hard to say.

 

If I had gotten x-rays of Speedy when he was young, maybe signs of his arthritis would have shown up and I could have started him on an appropriate diet, supplement regimen, etc. and might have been able to slow the condition way down.

 

But that's a maybe. Maybe back then there was nothing to see. Who knows?

 

Then I have Maddie, who is almsot 9 years old. I've never gotten her x-rayed and she is running Agility with no apparent problems. We aren't super-serious, but she's still going strong.

 

I know people who have gotten x-rays done of young dogs before starting them in sports. I haven't chosen to do so with Dean, but I can see the wisdom of checking for problems before getting started. If there IS something, it's best to know when the dog is young. If there isn't, then you know there isn't.

 

But I honestly doubt I would spend the money to get an x-ray on a young dog who seemed healthy and didn't have any apparent problems, in spite of that. I can see it being a good idea, but from a practical standpoint, it's not really something I can justify spending money on when I look at the big picture.

[agilityrunningdogs]

It's easy to see both sides of the equation here. On one hand, you want to be safe, but on the other, is it really worth it?

 

Maelstrom will be x-rayed when he is nuetered in a few weeks, as he will be over 1 year (his birthday is today) and I want to make sure his growth plates are closed before I start any serious training. Another reason I opted to scan him was because he is slightly inbred (same grandmother on both sides - accident), and small for his age and I am verifying that his structure looks sound and wholesome to see if competitive sports is an option, or if I have to scale back.

 

If you haven't noticed anything wrong before, and you arn't going to be hard core training/competing, then I honestly wouldn't worry about it. However, if you have high hopes and aspirations or if there is a reason for concern, then it certainly can't hurt anything but the pocketbook.

[eclare]

If you haven't noticed anything wrong before, and you arn't going to be hard core training/competing, then I honestly wouldn't worry about it. However, if you have high hopes and aspirations or if there is a reason for concern, then it certainly can't hurt anything but the pocketbook.

 

 

This is my instinct, as well. If you're just starting out in agility, presumably most of the obstacles are being learned at pretty low heights and slow speeds. As you get more serious it might be worth looking into, but if you have a healthy active young dog, I would hold off until then.

[PSmitty]

But I honestly doubt I would spend the money to get an x-ray on a young dog who seemed healthy and didn't have any apparent problems, in spite of that. I can see it being a good idea, but from a practical standpoint, it's not really something I can justify spending money on when I look at the big picture.

 

This is my take on it as well.

[MaggieDog]

I xrayed Z before adoption because I knew I wanted a performance prospect and her background is unknown. The vet I used did her hip xrays without sedation and I got out for under $50! I doubt I would have wanted to pay for anesthesia, but I got enough info from the one unsedated view that I went ahead with her adoption.

 

Now that I have an awesome vet who knows what I'm looking for in a dog structure-wise, I doubt I'll do xrays unless I see something that indicates the need. My vet has done full range of motion manipulations on Kes (at 7mo) and is very happy with what she feels and sees. I did ask her about xrays and she said she wouldn't spend the money on it as she feels his joints are just where they need to be.

[BCjetta]

If anything, I'd say the hips would be something to x-ray (would show how good or poor the hips are and let you know if you need to be a bit careful on what you let the dog do). Other than that, I don't think I'd x-ray anything else on a young dog just to check it.

[juliepoudrier]

The other side to X-rays "just to see" is the number of people who come on here after having X-rays that show *mild* dysplasia in one hip and are convinced that their dog is destined to be a cripple and all their plans for sports of any sort are ruined. I have working dogs, none of whom have been X-rayed, except those I wanted to breed and so wanted a hip eval on. Even for hips I'd wait until the dog is old enough (i.e., 2 years) before spending money on an evaluation, since the whole reason for the evaluating entities requiring the dog to be 2 years old is because structural changes occur as the young dog grows. Getting radiographs at a younger age won't necessarily provide a true view of what the dog will be as an adult.

 

If you feel compelled to X-ray a dog out the wazoo, it would be in your best interests to find a good orthopedic specialist, and one who is also well-versed in sports medicine, who can explain well the *true* implications of any findings on the radiographs. JMO.

 

J.

[ThunderHill]

If you plan to do very physically demanding activities with your dog, and have an adequate budget, I would wait till the dog is about 2 years old and get orthopaedic quality x-rays of hips, elbows, and spine. Possibly also knees (stifle).

 

If your dog is fine now, they probably won't find anything wrong. Hooray! That's great, and will give you peace of mind as you and your partner push your limits!

 

But in addition to assurance of current soundness, it will provide you with a long-term baseline, in case anything ever does happen. Having "before" and "after" references can help you identify disc compression, spinal spurs, and hip and knee joint changes, pre-fracture alignments, etc.

 

Vets used to hang onto original x-rays like grim death (I believe they're legally entitled to do so and I have no quarrel with that), which affected the practical usefulness of such records when changing practices for any reason. (My understanding is that X-rays are supposed to be forwarded along with other medical records, at least if requested by the animal's owner; but original films are large, awkward and fragile and in my personal experience, the actual films seldom actually change hands.)

 

However, last time I had a dog radiographed for OFA, I found they're now doing digital x-rays. (And submitting them to OFA electronically, a huge convenience for all concerned.) My vet's office was perfectly happy to make me a copy on disc, for a modest fee. So now I have my own copies in case I ever need to produce them in a hurry. I live in a fairly rural area (though that particular vet was more suburban) so I'm hoping this is a sign that digital x-ray technology isn't all that uncommon these days.

 

I've had several dogs with complicated health histories, so I may be over-cautious in this regard.

 

It's an expensive precautionary measure. Personally, right now, I wouldn't be able to afford an extensive set of "just in case" x-rays, though it would be on my list of things to accommodate in my future budget. (I will find a way to get hips done on my bitch after she turns 2, at a minimum. Probably at the same time I have her spayed.)

 

There's also the potential anaesthesia issue to consider. There are some series which are difficult to obtain without at least mild sedation, and every time your dog is put under, there's some risk. You may or may not be comfortable with that.

 

Just some additional thoughts. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and enjoy your dog!

 

Liz S in hot*humid*foul*fetid*foggy S Central PA

[Frogs & Dogs]

First let me say thank you all so much for the replies! I have not made a decision yet, but I do feel more prepared to make an informed decision.

 

As far as how seriously I'd like to get into frisbee and agility, I guess that will depend more on Kit's abilities than on me. I would say that my aspirations for frisbee are higher than for agility, but that might change if/when we start agility!

 

After looking over the quote given to me by the vet, it seems like an all or nothing kind of thing. If I'm going to spend the money for any x-rays at all, it would be best to get it all checked out, because 5 views isn't that much more expensive than 1. So if I do it, I'm thinking hips, knees, elbows, and shoulders. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the front end than the back - I suspect hips and knees are probably fine.

 

The money thing isn't huge for me - I can afford whatever should be done. That said, I don't like wasting money. The sedation thing worries me a bit more, as ThunderHill pointed out. They want to use Xylazine/Butorphanol to sedate her and Yohimbine to reverse it. Anyone know anything about these drugs? They'd do it in the morning and then keep her kenneled in the office for the rest of the day. I trust both of the people who recommended this vet practice to me, and each of them has had multiple dogs x-rayed there - some dogs more than once. But there's always that chance...

 

If I go through with this, a friend of a friend will hopefully be offering a second opinion on the radiographs. I don't know what her specialty was, but she recently retired from the vet school in my area and she does agility with her dog.

 

Once again, thanks for sharing your opinions, and keep them coming if there are more!

[C Crocker]

The money thing isn't huge for me - I can afford whatever should be done. That said, I don't like wasting money. The sedation thing worries me a bit more, as ThunderHill pointed out. They want to use Xylazine/Butorphanol to sedate her and Yohimbine to reverse it. Anyone know anything about these drugs? They'd do it in the morning and then keep her kenneled in the office for the rest of the day. I trust both of the people who recommended this vet practice to me, and each of them has had multiple dogs x-rayed there - some dogs more than once. But there's always that chance...

 

If I go through with this, a friend of a friend will hopefully be offering a second opinion on the radiographs. I don't know what her specialty was, but she recently retired from the vet school in my area and she does agility with her dog.

 

Once again, thanks for sharing your opinions, and keep them coming if there are more!

 

 

 

I don't know whether or not you should have radiographs, but if you do try and find a vet who takes rads without sedation if tht is a concern for you. When I wanted to get my working border collie done I went to a vet who takes alot of rads that go to the OFA people and it was all done w/o sedation. One shot per angle and all went through OFA with out a hitch.

[elegy]

I'm fairly certain I'm going to have Steve's hips and possibly his elbows xrayed when I have him neutered in the next couple months. I was going to have them OFA prelimmed just so I'd have a rating for my own peace of mind, but now I think I'm going to base that on what they look like. I'm up in the air about the worth of doing his elbows. I have him in mind as an agility and flyball dog, and it seems like it would be a good idea, and since he'll be out anyway, it'd be easy to do.