jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I have been following this story since the beginning and I have no idea what to make of it but I thought I would ask this group because there is so much 'canine knowledge' in one place, maybe someone will have an idea. My friend at work, Steve, has a Shih Tzu puppy. She is now just 1 year old. When she was around 8 months old, she was snuffling around the yard and appeared to get something caught up her nose. She started to sneeze and wheeze. Later that evening he found discharge out of the left nostril and the dog was lethargic and looked in pain. The next morning they took her to the vet. The vet prescribed antibiotic and pain meds. After a week, there was no change. She started to reverse sneeze constantly and ooze a greenish, smelly discharge from the left nostril only. Another week goes by and no change. I suggested that Steve speak with a different vet. We live near Philly and I thought that someone at U of Penn might be good. I found Steve a new vet who scoped her sinus and said that she had an enlarged palette. He operated on her and lessened the palette. The little dog seemed better at first and got most of her energy back but she still had discharge on her left side. Even weeks after the operation she is still not right - the discharge has become even more green and gooey and has to be expressed out with a tube similar to what you use on an infant. Her eyes are very teary and her ears are starting to look infected as well. Just yesterday Steve took her to have an MRI. He was hoping that the MRI would show some sort of obstruction in her sinus but it showed nothing. According to the tech that did the MRI there is nothing but an infection in her left nostril. What would cause such a persistant infection that does not go away with antiobiotics and cannot be identified with an MRI or scope? If anyone has heard of this before or could give an idea about this, it would be great. I believe the little dog is suffering and Steve is at his wit's end. Any and all ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Are there foxtails in your area? I also don't know if they'd show up on an MRI, but that's the first thing I thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Are there foxtails in your area? I also don't know if they'd show up on an MRI, but that's the first thing I thought of. I know that we have foxtails in our area, however, wouldn't that get picked up by either the scope or the MRI? Are they too tiny to see with a scope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I know that we have foxtails in our area, however, wouldn't that get picked up by either the scope or the MRI? Are they too tiny to see with a scope? I was just looking in google and came up with this phrase - does anyone know what this means? Caudal mediastinal abscess due to a grass awn Is that a foxtail (or awn) caught in the sinus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 No. The mediastinum is the chest compartment that lies between the lungs and contains the heart. "Caudal" means "toward the tail" (in humans it would be "inferior"). (edited thanks to Liz's correction of my brain fart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 MRI and CT scans work by comparing different properties of tissues. Some materials will have the same signature as the tissue that surrounds it so will not show up on scans. Sometimes objects are just far too small or thin to show up. I suspect in this case they just haven't found whatever is up there, which is not surprising. Sinus cavities can cause a lot of grief for vets. caudal = towards the tail in animals, cranial = towards the head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 MRI and CT scans work by comparing different properties of tissues. Some materials will have the same signature as the tissue that surrounds it so will not show up on scans. Sometimes objects are just far too small or thin to show up. I suspect in this case they just haven't found whatever is up there, which is not surprising. Sinus cavities can cause a lot of grief for vets. caudal = towards the tail in animals, cranial = towards the head Could it be possible that the foxtail is in the lung? The vet might not have looked there? Also, I read that an infected tooth root could cause this problem. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Could it be possible that the foxtail is in the lung? The vet might not have looked there? Also, I read that an infected tooth root could cause this problem. What do you think? If it is coming out one nostril I would say it's in the sinus cavity. Sure, a tooth root could do it, but they most likely would have seen that on the scans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 If it is coming out one nostril I would say it's in the sinus cavity. Sure, a tooth root could do it, but they most likely would have seen that on the scans. Will this thing eventually make it's way out of the body? From what I read, it seems to bore into the soft tissue and keep on going until it makes it's way out. Is that so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Wasn't there a post in this section in the past year about a dog with a similar problem? I'd search it, but I have only a vague memory of the discussion and have no idea what terms to use to search for the thread. ETA: This is the thread I was thinking about. It's very short, but there are some suggestions that might be helpful, including biopsy and culturing for bacterial and fungal infections (secondary to perhaps the original insult caused by a grass awn--like a foxtail). (As an aside, why is it that I can remember something like a discussion on this forum that took place a year or two ago, but can't remember friends' names sometimes? Rhetorical question--I know it's one of the lovely side effects of entering middle age....) J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Wasn't there a post in this section in the past year about a dog with a similar problem? I'd search it, but I have only a vague memory of the discussion and have no idea what terms to use to search for the thread. ETA: This is the thread I was thinking about. It's very short, but there are some suggestions that might be helpful, including biopsy and culturing for bacterial and fungal infections (secondary to perhaps the original insult caused by a grass awn--like a foxtail). (As an aside, why is it that I can remember something like a discussion on this forum that took place a year or two ago, but can't remember friends' names sometimes? Rhetorical question--I know it's one of the lovely side effects of entering middle age....) J. Did Mandakay ever come back with an answer? She sort of ended it with the same stuff going on. It sounds alot like Steve's dog especially with the sneezing and flinging of green discharge (yuck!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Did Mandakay ever come back with an answer? She sort of ended it with the same stuff going on. Mandakay eventually chose to euthanize Chance, the dog discussed in that thread. But I cannot remember her reasons for doing so...trying to search now to refresh my memory. ETA: If I'm reading/remembering correctly, Amanda was not able to obtain a definitive diagnosis and successful treatment for Chance here locally. Here is a thread she started about her experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Mandakay eventually euthanized Chance, the dog discussed in that thread. But I cannot remember her reasons for doing so...trying to search now to refresh my memory. I don't think I will tell Steve that. He is very attached to little 'Ruby'. If any other info is available, please let me know. Thanks for all of your expertise. S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I understand. I wouldn't have mentioned it here if you hadn't specifically asked, as I know it's not what you were hoping to hear. In Manda's case, I think she found herself tapped out, financially, and was unable to do additional testing. Although I used to see her in person, she didn't discuss this point with me, so I'm just drawing conclusions based on her posts here and the end result. It sounds like perhaps Steve is fortunate to have the resources to run additional diagnostics. I hope he is able to find an answer soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 MRI and CT scans work by comparing different properties of tissues. Some materials will have the same signature as the tissue that surrounds it so will not show up on scans. Sometimes objects are just far too small or thin to show up. I suspect in this case they just haven't found whatever is up there, which is not surprising. Sinus cavities can cause a lot of grief for vets. caudal = towards the tail in animals, cranial = towards the head What would be the best way to approach this. Obviously Steve has done everything the vet has suggested (scope, MRI, antibiotics, steriods) and the condition is still present. What would you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Will this thing eventually make it's way out of the body? From what I read, it seems to bore into the soft tissue and keep on going until it makes it's way out. Is that so? It could eventually make it's way out, but in the process making holes in any soft tissue....lungs etc. Not a good thing. The infection wouldn't clear up or heal until the foxtail is gone I don't think. I'm not entirely sure how it works with those things. We don't have very many of them here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Some news on Ruby's condition. Her vet had a long discussion with the MRI tech and met to go over each and every view of the MRI. They might actually have found something!!! The vet is going to make the trip to the tech's office and go over the details this week. With any luck, Ruby could be operated on and finally cleared of this THING! I am very excited and give two paws up for the vet that wouldn't give up on his little patient! Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. p.s. it broke my heart to read about Manda and Chance - bless both of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Please be sure to update us when you hear. I hate the idea of the suffering, and I hate not knowing about the poor thing. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson's mom Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I just got the word on little Ruby -- the tech and doc got together and went through the MRI. They decided that the 'something' that they found was actually just a 'nothing'. No the vet is going to put her on antibiotics and prednisone for a month to see if he can clear up the infection. They think that maybe if the infection is less inflamed they might be able to see something with the scope. Steve and his wife are very upset. Ruby is still blowing gooeys out of her nose but she is still a happy little girl. Last evening Steve said he fell asleep in his chair only to awaken to Ruby sitting in his lap staring at him - "Do you still love me?" And the answer is a big YES! I will keep you updated. Thanks to all again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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