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Why is Maya suddenly seeming aggressive........


Guest maya's mom
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Guest maya's mom

This situation happened yesterday and I need some suggestions on how to proceed from here. This may be a little long, so I apologize in advance. But I want you all to have as much info as possible, to help assess the situation.

 

Yesterday I took Maya (13 months old) to a dog park that we frequented almost daily this summer. We have only been a few times this winter, and haven't encountered any other dogs while there. This time though, there was a 4 month old, male Akita puppy there with his family, including 2 small kids. Initially, I was glad, b/c I knew Maya hadn't had enough dog interaction lately. She loves kids and was very excited to see them. She even went to check them out, before paying attention to the puppy. This puppy was very nice and well behaved, and never acted aggressive or anything, the whole time he was there. He was though, interested in Maya and was sniffing her and otherwise just trying to be near her, and engage her to play I guess. The very first time he came over, she immediately showed her "mean" teeth. She proceeded to do this, along with "air-snapping" toward him. Again, the puppy never did anything other then try to get near her and seem to want to play. He didn't growl, paw at her, jump on her, etc.....I was very embarassed and apologized to the family. Their reaction though, was to say it was fine, don't worry......and to let them be, b/c their puppy needed to learn that not all dogs want to be played with, etc. All in all we were there for 45 minutes, and Maya's behavior toward the puppy never changed. I was able to distract her some with her frisbee.......I got her (& the puppy) to sit and take treats. She let the kids play with her and throw her frisbee, and she even took treats from the puppy's owner. But when ever the puppy came near her, she showed her teeth. One thing that's weird though, is that I started to wonder if she thought she WAS playing with him, b/c she never actually bit him, and a few times, she even wandered in his direction, when he wasn't paying attention to her.........

 

The reason this behavior worried me, is b/c of another situation that happened at the same park this summer. Maya is a typical BC, and she doesn't usually actively engage other dogs to play. She just watches them, and runs along side them with her frisbee. This summer, sometimes when a dog tried to play with her, she would just back away from him and run off. Well one dog (a golden mix), was a little aggressive with her and scared her pretty badly while in the pool. She was chasing her non stop and was barking at her and snapping near her face. Maya was so scared that she even put herself under water to get away from the dog. That time, we left the park. The next time we saw the dog, it acted the same way toward Maya, and it did make contact and bite her in the face. (No harm done though.) But when that happened, Maya snapped back for the first time and the dog backed off. The next few times we were there, I saw Maya show her teeth to a few dogs the very first time they even came near her. This only happened with dogs she didn't know. (There were 3 or 4 dogs that were always there when we were this summer, and she never did this to them.)

 

So, after all of that rambling (sorry!), I guess the root of my concerns, is wondering if she is going to act this way all of the time now, around dogs she doesn't know, at the park. She doesn't do this while meeting new dogs on a walk, on leash, at a pet store, etc. She also has a play date every now and then with a few dogs we know, and is around dogs our family members own, and never does this to them. This is making me scared to take her to a dog park, b/c I am afraid she will do this to a dog who IS aggressive, and she will get hurt. Part of the problem is that I am a little afraid of dogs (attacked by a doberman when I was little), so I would be afraid to break it up, or even know what to do. We haven't been able to continue with her group training (she did finish a few months of puppy classes), b/c I lost my job and money is just too tight. We have been working together at home from books, etc. But admittedly, she hasn't been around other dogs very much since the pool at the park closed in early October.

 

Please let me know the best way to handle this. I want her to be able to be around other dogs, at the park and other places, without issue. Thank you.

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This is the kind of dog-behavior question I usually have. and then should I correct her for that type of behavior or let her be??? I'll be very interested in seeing what people say.

 

Here are my experiences with this kind of thing.

I worked at a doggie daycare for 3 years (handling 10 to 30 dogs at the same time, in the same area). I had Kyla for about a year of that time. Ky is a spayed female BC and about 2.5 years old now. Sometimes in daycare she would be in a 'bad mood' and show her teeth and sometimes air snap at dogs who were more than 2ft from her. (usually dogs she did not know well). I have been around many, many dogs and I think know dog body lanuage fairly well (I am ALWAYS willing to learn more tho). So if the dog was not purposely annoying Kyla or doing anything offensive to bother her (licking her repeatedly in the face, playing with her when she did not want to, etc.) I would correct her (gently) to let her know that, when a dog wasn't doing anything to bother her (i.e. the dog just walked near her or looked at her) she was not allowed to act nasty. If the dog was bothering her or in her face or in extreame cases, trying to hump her or something like that, she was entirely allowed her "own opinion" and if she wanted to let the dog know she was not please, I let her, and softly encouraged her, to respond however she felt fit.

 

That was clear as mud, right? :rolleyes:

 

Once Kyla gets to know dogs, she gets along very well with most (doesn't like basset hounds or tiny yippy dogs). And the majority dogs she gets along with fairly well from the start. Kyla is also the only dog in my house, so I wonder if that effects her relationship with other dogs too.

 

I look forward to seeing what other people say!

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I do agree with AgileBC - my parents had a Chow/Sharpei mix who just did not like most dogs. She had such a low tolerance that it became somewhat easy for me to see when she'd had her limit (because 99% of the time, she'd reached her limit, so I was able to see the behavior very frequently). I can see it now in my oldest BC, Darcy. He's sometimes leash aggressive but not always. But now I know to be on the lookout for his triggers so that I can steer him away to safety and have a much less dramatic experience.

 

 

I'm wondering if the puppy's energy was somewhat similar to the golden mix? Maybe there are just certain energy levels that Maya doesn't feel comfortable around. Like with people, there are the "energy vampires" who when you see them coming prompt you to run the other way. :rolleyes:

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Jedi (who is shy) reacts this way to dogs who run up to him and get up in his face, so I rarely take him to a dog park. It's different when all the dogs are on leash (walks, petsmart) because we can control who meets who and how. If there aren't too many dogs....if there's some he knows...it can sometimes work at the dog park but I would have to arrange it with certain people at a particular low traffic time. If I didn't do it this way, it was always stressful for him (not fun) and I ran the risk of him getting hurt. So I decided he didn't have to play and be ok with every dog he met because that's just not his personality, and his life would still be great if he didn't go to the dog park all the time. That's probably not very helpful...sorry :rolleyes:

 

Georgia

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If you wanted a "dog park dog", you should have gotten one of those goofy breeds, like a lab. It's quite common for border collies as they mature to loose their interest in going to the park to "play" with other dogs. Border collies were bred to work in partnership with a single human, the shepherd, not to run in packs of other canids like, say, beagles.

 

It sounds like your dog, who is now passing through her teenage years and starting to think like an adult, was giving you all kinds of signs that she no longer wants to play with puppies. Why not just listen to her? Why impose your expectations on her? It's one thing to ask your dog to be polite but quite another to ask her to put up with whatever obnoxious behavior another creature cares to inflict on her.

 

Please read this - it might help you understand your dog's perspective: He Just Wants to Say Hi

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Please let me know the best way to handle this. I want her to be able to be around other dogs, at the park and other places, without issue. Thank you.

Sorry, I didn't really answer your question directly. Here are my suggestions:

 

1. Skip the dog park. At most dog parks, there are too many dogs running loose in too small a space. There are many articles on the internet about this.

 

2. When your dog asks to be given a little more room, by a polite growl or lift of the lip, respect that and respond. Remove the thing that is bothering her, or just leave the vicinity. She will be much happier knowing you understand and respond to her signals.

 

3. Provide opportunities for her to be around other dogs who are not trying to invade her space or interact with her (e.g. quiet, leashed dogs), so she learns that she can relax around other dogs. Dog events are great for this, because there are rules that ensure there won't be loose dogs running around, and because people at dog events generally understand that some dogs need their space. Many reactive dogs are able to relax and participate fully in dog events because they learn that they will never have another dog unexpectedly approach them there. This is partly because there are rules and partly because you, the handler, can control how close you let your dog get to others she might find offensive or frightening.

 

The answer to the question in the title of your post is, I believe, "Because your dog is now coming to the end of her puppyhood and becoming an adult."

 

Hope this helps.

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EXCELLENT link Alaska!

As an owner of a reactive dog, I have to say, learning to read body language is a very valuable asset! Then you may be able to figure out if Maya is stressed or worried about a certain dog before it gets to teeth snapping. I would also wonder if the treats had anything to do with it? Daisy will walk with another dog as long as it does not want to directly interact with her and she's fine. You bring food into the mix and it's not a good situation. Kind of like RDM's Piper and her mad teeth. You also have to understand that not all dogs like all dogs. Like I said, Daisy is fine unless the dog wants to shove it's face into hers, personally I don't blame her some of the time, but she does have a thing for proud male dogs (you know they walk with their tails up and all "chesty"), she hates them. We are working on it, but it's tough when you only run into them once in a while.

Alaska has a good point about bc's being bred to work with a single human. It's true and I don't really know too many bc's that are super duper playfully friendly with other dogs.

I would keep setting up play dates with dogs she knows/knows a little bit. Keep her interacting with other dogs, but maybe stay further away from puppies if you can. I was going to suggest finding a good day care once a week, but if funds are tight, that is understandable.

I wouldn't correct her/punish her for reacting this way with other dogs though. Distract her before it gets to that level, yes, but no corrections. A dog who gets corrected for snarking at another dog is prone to do it again.

I also don't think dog parks are the best place anyway. We go, but early morning when we know the dog count will be way low. Most dogs are so excited by the time they get to the park that their adrenaline levels are so high they can't even think straight and their owners just let them out of the vehicle like a bolt of lightning. Then you get 5 or 10 more dogs who are just as excited and they feed off each other. A disaster waiting to happen on a good day, IMO.

I don't know if any of this helped, just some thoughts.

Good luck

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... I was able to distract her some with her frisbee.......I got her (& the puppy) to sit and take treats. She let the kids play with her and throw her frisbee, and she even took treats from the puppy's owner. But when ever the puppy came near her, she showed her teeth.

 

I was going to ask you if there were toys involved, until I read this and saw that there was a frisbee in the mix.

 

I'm going to bet that Maya was protecting her frisbee from this puppy, even though it might have shown no interest in it whatsoever.

I say this because my dog Skye is very toy-possessive. I have since learned that it is either play with ball/frisbee, or play with other dogs. Never do the two meet. Even with dogs she knows well and likes. If I take the ball/frisbee away and put it in my pocket, she guards my pocket. So I have made a point of separating these two activities. I used to think that she had simply outgrown her interest in playing with other dogs, but I now know that if she meets another dog that seems to be of the same ilk, she will play quite happily with them -- as long as no one puts an item of value in the mix (even a stick :rolleyes: ).

 

In terms of Maya allowing the kids to throw her frisbee and the owner to feed her treats -- this reminds me of Skye's 'better than your dog' behaviour. Mine is a major show-off and high-speed competitor. If she can get anyone else to throw her frisbee/ball (esp at the expense of their own dog) she has won. So I try to limit this because it just feeds her border collie ego :D .

Just a thought,

Ailsa

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Guest maya's mom

Thanks everyone for the EXCELLENT advice. Alaska---great link. Thank you. All of these responses have made me feel better, and understand that the way Maya was/is acting, is typical for the breed and age. I guess I was under the impression that you have to take your dog to the dog park a lot, in order for them to be a nice, sociable dog. Even from 8 weeks old, Maya has always been more interested in people than other dogs, so I will just go with this. I will continue to take her places.......the vet, the pet store, etc and let her meet dogs that way, where there is control to it. And I will continue play dates with dogs that we already know, or new ones we meet that she doesn't have issue with. In the meantime, we go on lots of hikes through the woods, neighborhood walks, backyard frisbee, home training, and she loves all of that. Being new to dogs in general, I sometimes just need to run things by all of you smart people! :rolleyes:

 

Maya says "Thanks" too!

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I personally don't like dog parks. Too much is out of my control to feel comfortable. When Quinn was a puppy, we were lucky enough to have a great group of friends' dogs he could play with. As he matured, he became more interested in playing with people than dogs, though he likes them well enough. As an aside, Quinn has zero patience for puppies around that Akita's age. He's wonderfully patient with the little ones, no matter how much they get in his way. He's fine with the adolescents but with that in between age he is downright unsocial. I don't see what they're doing that he finds obnoxious but I figure he has the right to tell them to stay out of his space as long as he isn't hurting them. Mainly he makes ugly faces and tells them to buzz off, which they quickly decide is a good idea. :rolleyes:

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Another thought. Maya may not like particular types of dogs, no matter how they act.

Even going to doggie daycare everyday, while I was working there, my BC Kyla is still not super social with other random dogs. She tends to like other border collies and dogs that act like border collies, usually bc mixes. She also had a puggle friend, one lab, a beagle, and a great dane she was best buds with.

Other than the couple BCs and those few dogs, she didn't play with most of the other dogs on a regular basis. She also hates Bassett hounds (from the very first time she saw them), they make her nervous. And little yippy dogs...she doesn't like those either :rolleyes: she is ok with other small dogs as long as they aren't "snotty" or snippy with her.

And she had plenty of different dogs to pick from, 10 to 15 dogs mon.-thursday. and up to 30 dogs on fridays. (she 'knew'/met probally 50 different dogs)

She did have places to jump up on to move herself out of the action. and I also let her out of the play area to relax if she was ever stressed out by certain dogs. She enjoyed daycare and was excited to go to work with me everyday, but just didn't care to play with a ton of dogs.

 

If you wanted a "dog park dog", you should have gotten one of those goofy breeds, like a lab. It's quite common for border collies as they mature to loose their interest in going to the park to "play" with other dogs. Border collies were bred to work in partnership with a single human, the shepherd, not to run in packs of other canids like, say, beagles.

 

It sounds like your dog, who is now passing through her teenage years and starting to think like an adult, was giving you all kinds of signs that she no longer wants to play with puppies. Why not just listen to her? Why impose your expectations on her? It's one thing to ask your dog to be polite but quite another to ask her to put up with whatever obnoxious behavior another creature cares to inflict on her.

 

That is a great point Alaska! (and nice article too, thanks!) Not all border collies are super crazy about being with other dogs. I'd agree about the dogparks too.

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A lot of people here are against dog parks, because the only ones they know or have access to are the small, fenced in, 50 dogs in close vecinity type of dog parks.

 

We have a few of those, one that I visit only when desperate to get Ouzo more exercise and enrichment, and when the lakes at the "cool" dog parks are frozen and I don't want to take the risk to be the one on the news who jumped in the freezing lake to save her dog :rolleyes:

 

We went to that small park just this past Saturday, so that Angus (remember the lil' orange ACD mix my friends got around Thankgiving? - he's 4.5 months old now) could have a buddy (Ouzo) to boost his confidence. It was a lot of fun for the puppy, but Ouzo didn't have enough room to run (they had most of the area close off for some strange reason) and the density of crazy dogs per square foot was getting to all of us. Ouzo is your typical BC who couldn't care less if there were 2 or 200 dogs at that park, he came to play ball and that's what he did. I had to yell at a couple of crazy dogs who insisted on getting Ouzo's attention by nipping him while he was majestically ignoring them and bringing me the ball. If he was a reactive dog, it would have escalated to a fight, for sure. Luckily he's not one to do so. Therefore we soon left - we had already been there for about an hour when this happened.

 

The point I am trying to make? There are dog parks and dog parks. And there are dogs and dogs. The two big dog parks we frequent most of the year are actually portions of state parks dedicated for dogs and dog training. Huge parks, where, if your dog doesn't want to have 25 other dogs in his face, he is free to play in a total diferent area and just concentrate on you and (if applicable) a ball or frisbee.

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Wow, what great advice from everyone, it's always nice to know that other people go through the same things.

 

One thing I might add that I have noticed is an issue for us, and might apply to the big dog (golden did you say?) from last summer is that we tend to have issues w/ other dogs wanting to control ours and slow them down, or take away their intensity. I don't know if that makes sense, but our dogs are definately very focused on us and what we are doing, we've had multiple experiences with other dogs, often bigger breeds, but not as quick and agile as ours trying to get ours to play. Then when the bc's don't engage they try to control our dogs and almost attempt to make them engage w/ them. I learned a long time ago, dog parks are off for this reason, and toys out of sight when there is a dog exhibiting this behavior, however, since we live in the country and there aren't leash laws, we still run into dogs trying to control ours.

 

The other issue I have experienced along these lines is at our agility classes. When Boots was in intermediate and a new beginner group got going, he was chased after quite a few times, and nailed once really badly by a big GSD. I now help teach the beginner classes and often when the dogs have been in class for 8 to 10 weeks they will all of a sudden start showing controling behavior to the fast intermediate dogs. Typcially that lasts for a few weeks and then they figure out that they are responsible for their job and not the other dogs job and things are usually fine, but kind of interesting to watch them go through that growing phase.

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One thing I might add that I have noticed is an issue for us, and might apply to the big dog (golden did you say?) from last summer is that we tend to have issues w/ other dogs wanting to control ours and slow them down, or take away their intensity.

 

This absolutely happens to Odin. At the dog park, there are dogs and there are dogs, as Anda says, and Odin is polite to all. There are some who are most definitely NOT polite to him, and many try to do exactly what you describe here. He becomes evasive, pretending that he doesn't actually want the ball, or whatever, until they leave him alone. Then he brings it again. In fact, all the BCs at our main park are just different from all the other dogs. They come to play with their owner, or if they are a slut like *ahem* Odin :D then with their owner OR anyone who is either a 12-year old girl or a man who can throw it really well. :rolleyes: There are other dogs who ARE polite and seem to admire him and the other BCs, either by following him/them at a non-interfering distance or those who watch him and then go drink water with him. These dogs are the closest things to his dog park "buds".

 

Some of the other BCs exhibit even weirder behavior, such as actively policing other dogs' fights. The border collies certainly seem different than the other dogs. But in other (non-dog park) situations, he is still very friendly with other dogs, seeming interested in them and happy to meet them. I wonder if that will change (he's 11 months)?

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He becomes evasive, pretending that he doesn't actually want the ball, or whatever, until they leave him alone. Then he brings it again. In fact, all the BCs at our main park are just different from all the other dogs. They come to play with their owner, or if they are a slut like *ahem* Odin :D then with their owner OR anyone who is either a 12-year old girl or a man who can throw it really well. :rolleyes:

 

 

Haha - you just described Ouzo - since he's already 3 years old and has had the exact same atitude at the park since he was 6-7 months old, maybe that's an indication Odin might not change :D

 

And yes, sometimes he does try to play sheriff in random dog scuffles, but never actually participates, more like watching from the bench, cussing them and taking notes so he can bring them in court later as proof :D

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sometimes he does try to play sheriff in random dog scuffles, but never actually participates, more like watching from the bench, cussing them and taking notes so he can bring them in court later as proof :rolleyes:

 

 

YES!!! Darcy likes to tattle on or accuse/nudge with the pointy nose any dog who isn't listening to his/her owner or who isn't playing appropriately. And he totally works the crowd too, so we'll file him in the doggy slut category too! LOL. His weakness is little boys because they think it's really cool when he catches the frisbee. When my neighbors' grandkids visit, Darcy walks with his frisbee over to the front of our yard so we can play for our audience. :D

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Guest maya's mom

Prior to her reaction the other day, the above descriptions are exactly things that Maya has done while at the dog park. It's funny how differently dog breeds really are, when you are talking to people who actually watch their dogs behaviors and try to evaluate them. It's very helpful really!

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Maybe tell Miss Maya Polamalu that she doesn't need to participate in any defensive tackles or unnecessary roughness on the field? :D:rolleyes:

LOL

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Guest maya's mom
Maybe tell Miss Maya Polamalu that she doesn't need to participate in any defensive tackles or unnecessary roughness on the field? :D:rolleyes:

LOL

 

 

 

Yes, I will have to tell her that football season is over! :D

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