General training question-barking

[Ooky]

I saw some mention in other threads about their BCs making noise during activities like agility and flyball, barking or "screaming". Odin and I just finished our puppy class and he was the star in all respects except this barking thing. Other puppies in the class whined or barked or yapped, but he already has a very deep forceful "adult-sounding" bark. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to stop hte barking during training, or if I should even worry about it.

 

Some more information on the situation/behavior: Odin (19 wks today!) LOVES training in class and out. We do a variety of methods, not always with the clicker because he gets SO excited when he sees the clicker it is sometimes counterproductive for things like stays. We run the gamut from highly structured C/T sessions to praise-based games where I get him very excited with toys and then practice control and focus moves like stay/wait/drop-it/take-it/get-it. We also do all sorts of everyday practice of basic obedience commands as part of a NILIF and street-safety program. We also actively work on teaching names of things and have "multiple choice tests" where I ask him to get the correct toy out of a group by name. My goal in all of these training activities are first and foremost to make him a good companion and housepet, but a close second is also to lay the obedience foundation for whatever he and I decide we most like to do (and are able to do together) as he gets older - agility, disc dog, trialing, whatever it ends up being!

 

He ONLY barks during the C/T sessions, which includes the classes we take (he's starting obedience II next week by instructor approval ). This is not constant noise, but *very* targeted barks that coincide with the behavior I want to click for. Loud and sharp. He also barks when I mess up and click at the wrong time Except for the barking when I mess up (I definitely try not to but am new to clicker training and dog training in general), it seems hard to correct because I would have to correct at the exact same time he does the behavior I just asked for. His focus is definitely NOT lacking, I would say as he achieves higher focus levels the more this barking happens. But that also means stays are hard - he wants to be right in front of me for the next command.

 

Did any of you have this problem? I am open to anything, even accepting the behavior if it is normal for a BC.

 

thanks,

 

ooky

+Odin (BC pup), Dr. Benway (ocicat), and Lobo (bengal)

[Root Beer]

One thing I would try is this:

 

Hold a treat in one hand and the clicker in the other. Lure a sit and hold the treat right in front of the dog's nose. As long as the dog is quiet and his mouth is closed, I would click and give the treat.

 

I would build the duration of the silent "wait" with mouth closed (uncued) to about 10 seconds.

 

Once he could sit quietly for about 10 seconds with the treat right there, I would gradually move it away. The criteria for the click and treat at this point would be holding his mouth closed until I click.

 

If the dog barked at any time, I would lower the criteria and click for being silent for less time.

 

From there I slowly start to ask for simple behaviors - sit, down, spin, stay for several seconds, etc. If the behavior were carried out quietly, I would click and reward. At no time would I click if there was any barking.

 

Once the dog got the idea that clicks never come when there is barking and he could do several simple behaviors calmly and quietly, I would start to gradually make things more exciting. At this point I would not expect the closed mouth anymore unless there were barking.

 

I would expect this to be a slow process until the dog understood silence as part of the criteria.

 

This is something that I would definitely work on. Aside from the fact that he will be more attuned to you and your directives if he isn't barking a lot, there may be dogs in classes that you take who are sensitive to dogs barking. Also, it's good manners to keep one's dog's barking under control in most class situations.

[Bo Peep]

Another approach, which I used is to teach the dog to bark. If Odin barks at the doorbell, ring and treat for the barking. You can use another person for this and put a "word" to the barking- "speak, bark, etc..." Then you can easily teach him "No bark". That's the method I used. Kristine's is very good also. Versatility is what we offer here

[Root Beer]

Another approach, which I used is to teach the dog to bark. If Odin barks at the doorbell, ring and treat for the barking. You can use another person for this and put a "word" to the barking- "speak, bark, etc..." Then you can easily teach him "No bark".

 

I've always wondered if this actually works. I've heard it recommended a lot, but I've never known anyone who actually tried it.

[hsnrs]

Our dog barks while waiting for his turn at herding. Also when he is watching the others work. How can we keep him quiet? Not sure the click and treat would work but will try it Wednesday. Today I tried "no bark" and it worked til I was out of range to correct him. N

[Bo Peep]

it worked for me when I was training Bailey for "hearing ear dog" then I noticed - duh- why train a hearing ear dog to bark, color me stoopid- LOL. Though my friend hasn't lost ALL of her hearing yet and when Bailey just opened her mouth to bark, she didn't notice it and said "I can read lips". I guess that includes dogs lips, too.

[Ooky]

Thank you so much, Kristine! That is exactly the type of method we are looking for. I think we've already got a head start from playing games like airplane, which he is always silent during, but hadn't thought to use it as a way to communicate to him, "now we are having a silent training session. This is your new criteria." He does seem to pick up on sequence like that, as doing a few spins really helps him understand what I mean when I subsequently have him lay down and ask him to roll over with a similar signal (we just added that one).

 

Your concern about disturbing other dogs is exactly why I wanted to address this, especially as we move into our first class with adult dogs.

 

And Dianne, thank you for your advice as well but we have already tried that. He speaks on command (not surprisingly, one of his favorites), and he does get the no-bark command but not when he's not barking at the time. Since he barks at the moment he does a trick, once (or 2-3 times during a longer move like a spin), by the time I say no-bark he has already quit anyway. I don't know if this method works for others, but it does help us with alarm barking.

 

Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes!

 

ooky

+Odin (BC pup), Dr. Benway (ocicat), and Lobo (bengal)

 

Edited to change Dianne's name from her screen name as I just saw it

[Genie]

Our dog barks while waiting for his turn at herding. Also when he is watching the others work. How can we keep him quiet? Not sure the click and treat would work but will try it Wednesday. Today I tried "no bark" and it worked til I was out of range to correct him. N

 

My last dog would do the same thing. What worked for us was this:

Whenever he barked, I would turn him around to face me and gently hold the sides of his head to keep him from turning his head to see the sheep. I would wait until he settled/relaxed a bit and there were no vocalizations, then I would let him go to turn around and watch the sheep. I repeated this every time he barked and eventually the time between barks grew longer and longer. Since he wanted to see the sheep more than he wanted to bark, he learned to control himself.

[Ooky]

Thanks for the suggestions, I used a combination of the "puppy zen" that Kristine recommended and a little bit of face holding too. Genie, it was interesting when you posted that b/c it made me remember my mom used to use that exact technique on me and my brother to get our undivided attention and to get us to calm down when we were little. Funny!

 

Odin has been approx. 80% debarked for training purposes in all situations. Actually, more stimuli means less barking, and we can now refresh to remind him clicks are for silent tricks. Several min. of silent commands is rewarded with some command "speaks". Sometimes even when commanded to "speak" he seems scared to make a noise and does these silent barks. I'm going to figure out a way to put a command on that and call it "whisper"

 

We just graduated from our Obedience II class this week and I think he did very well. He had some stuff (NOT heeling, lol) down better than anyone. He did not bother the other dogs in class. I, however, really bothered one woman with my clicker. She hated the noise and every time I clicked would tell her dog "oooh, poor baby, don't listen to that nasty click!" Her dog didn't seem to mind it at all, and I felt within my rights using my clicker since it was announced on class the first day that you could use a marking "yes!" OR a clicker.

 

Oh well, I'm sure we'll meet all types as we take more and more classes. My favorite in that class was an ACD that would do whatever was asked but if it involved stays or downs she just looked like she was being beaten. Like it physically hurt her to have to stay. She was very obviously loved and gently treated, so it was seriously comical. Almost like forcing a cat to do obedience.

 

We start our CGC prep class next, then Rally-O for beginners. It should be a fun fall!