Noise Sensitivity and Working

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Might be a can of worms here -

 

I got this off the cattle finals thread, though I think this statement referred to the Bluegrass.

 

they may want to ask the police in advance NOT to use guns/blanks. This happened once at an event I was at , and it reduced many dogs to uselessness

 

They hunt long, hard, early, and late - in season and out of season - around here. Dogs that are "reduced to uselessness" during gunfire are . . .well . . .useless to me, basically. Ben's work becomes much more imprecise and he loses his focus greatly during thunder and gunfire, and that's bad enough.

 

I've never really thought about this before, I guess - it's like working during a thunderstorm with a thunderphobic dog. One only thinks later how that could have been a problem - stuff just has to get done when it needs doing. I can't wait for please all the nice hunters to put their black powder rifles away, thank you kindly.

[SoloRiver]

Well, there is enough noise phobia in the breed that, in Border Collies, noise phobia is common enough to be called "enriched" in disease study terms. There is no real epidemiology on this, I should note -- it's based primarily on anecdotal evidence -- but I would be surprised if many folks in Border Collies disagreed with me. The fact that it persists suggests two main explanations that are not mutually exclusive:

 

(1) It hasn't been selected against in the history of the breed. Given that storms and other problem noises are uncommon in the countries of origin, and that so many of our American working dogs are either imported from or descended relatively recently from dogs imported from the UK, this is probably an important factor. There's also the fact that dogs with sensitivities/phobias often can work through their fear (albeit often with less precision or gusto than normal), so even if it is a problem it isn't perceived as a really big one.

 

(2) There is a possibility that selecting for dogs that can respond to auditory cues at great distances leads to inadvertent selection for noise phobia -- in other words, that whatever genetic variation is responsible for one is also related to the other.

 

I think it's probably a combination of these two explanations that underlies the extent of noise sensitivity/phobia in the breed. Most noise phobic dogs are not pathological enough to cause major problems to a working owner, that much seems clear. Occasionally the dice comes up with snake eyes and an individual dog will be so profoundly noise phobic that he is useless as a working dog and/or has very little quality of life, but this seems to happen infrequently enough that noise phobia is not perceived as a big problem in working Border Collies.

 

Solo is very distressed during thunderstorms, fireworks, or gunfire, but he will still work (Becca has seen him working even with the neighbor kid shooting off a black powder rifle less than .25 miles away). My guess is that noise phobia is a bigger problem for owners of pet Border Collies than owners of working dogs, although that is just a guess. In a "civilian" environment, usually the owner cannot provide a distraction big enough to ameliorate the dog's distress, and working dogs are often kenneled during downtime, so that an owner might not witness fearful behaviors off stock, especially if those behaviors are limited to things like pacing, drooling, or trembling (rather than attempts to escape or destruction, which would certainly be noticed).

 

I have had numerous conversations about this issue with working dog handlers (as you might imagine) and the opinions range from "not a problem" to "noise phobic dogs should not be bred from." The latter opinion is more common among handlers who have been deserted by phobic dogs during noise events -- for example, sheep were being moved from field to field and the dog quit when the storm began. I remain agnostic on the subject, for the record.

 

At Soldier Hollow last fall, there was a bird dog demo held during the trial, and the gunfire did disturb a number of the dogs (one escaped and was eventually found). I do not know if it made a difference to the dog(s) running at the time. At the California State Fair trial last summer, everything ground to a halt when the fireworks show began, in the middle of the Open class. Many handlers went scrambling to their vehicles to make sure their dogs were safely secure and that no one had escaped in panic.

[juliepoudrier]

Interesting. Twist does not like gunfire, but it's not enough to make her do something foolish. She ignores it completely when working (same with storms, which can be a good thing, as Becca pointed out, since there are times when I need to get sheep up in the face of an impending storm). I would think that there are enough good working dogs out there who are not reduced to uselessness at the sound of gunfire that one wouldn't need to breed from one who was, but I wouldn't throw out from the gene pool all the mildly sensitive dogs (those who will work well through such noises).

 

That said, I too would want to make sure my dogs are secure (safe in crates, whatever) before fireworks begin, even for those who are not very noise sensitive. It just seems a sensible precaution, especially at a trial or other venue that is not the dogs' "home ground."

 

J.

[kelpiegirl]

I guess I should clarify my statement. The dogs who were actively being worked had no problem with the gun fire. It was the dogs who were in their crates, or tied, that got very worried/upset. It is all well and good to say "I can't wait for please all the nice hunters to put their black powder rifles away, thank you kindly." when you are at your home environment, and the dogs have had time to acclimate to the noise over a long period of time. It is a whole different situation, when you are at an event the caliber of the Bluegrass. I will also add that the WORST dogs that were affected at this event were well bred working BC's. They just happened to be sitting in their crates, minding their own business when the volley of gun fire started 20 feet away, complete with yelling and cans of smoke.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I should note that this wasn't a smug statement of self righteousness comparing my dogs to any that are affected. It was a genuine question, since I'd never actually thought about it in this light before.

 

Melanie stated the question much better than I did (of course) - how is is possible for a thunderphobic dog to be useful and why hasn't that created a breed with a crippling level of noise sensitivity altogether?

 

I've been at a lot of trials where there was nearby shooting going on, again usually during hunting season, and a couple where there were thunderstorms. Given the level of noise sensitivity out there in the breed, I'd expect such incidents to be a major factor during competitions. It's not in my experience (limited, granted).

 

After thinking about it yesterday, my feeling is that possibly we have another limiting factor at work, such as the one that limits over-the-top instincts with the ability to develop impulse control, or extreme athleticism with physical soundness. Probably I was attracted to this question because I think the answer may lie in one of my favorite topics of working dog breeding - how breeding for function also breeds for balanced characteristics.

 

Here, we have extreme sensitivity to noise, balanced by the fact that eventually you'll get a dog that is affected by noise events to the point that he is "useless" for work, and those dogs will be teased out of the gene pool - if a breeder will recognize that point. I would not breed Cord, for instance, who has some trouble paying attention during storms. I would definitely not breed Ben (all other things being equal), who flinches at distant hammering even while working.

 

It's not a matter of saying, "I won't breed a noise sensitive dog." I just have "useful" as my standard and I know a dog that's not on task all the time will let you down at some point and in fact you'll find it many times over, at just the worst moments. Been there done that.

 

I too would want to make sure my dogs are secure (safe in crates, whatever) before fireworks begin, even for those who are not very noise sensitive. It just seems a sensible precaution, especially at a trial or other venue that is not the dogs' "home ground."

 

 

It's a safety concern, of course. As the owner of two dogs who are very thunderphobic, I know that I need to assume the worst at all times and make sure Ben and Cord are secure anywhere we go.

 

Maybe this is a topic for health and genetics, but I thought it was also a training issue, as I think it highlights the importance of putting advanced training on stock intended for breeding.

[Cynthia P]

Very interesting topic...and btw Melanie, i just found the extended survey i hadn't posted in the maile about my guys....

 

Anyway, I have one that is not noise phobic at all, she can have gunfire, chainsaws, fireworks...doesn't matter if she is working or not. I have another that will work during the noise but is affected by it. If she is not working she is a bit of a basket case;

 

The one that has no problem with it was born on a farm with a gun range nearby...so is it genetic or environmental? Did that early exposure desensitize her or does she simply not care about the noise...of course I can yell at her like a lunatic and she doesn't care either. My husband raises his voice and she is gone. That is environmental!

 

I do find that if I work them early on while John is using the chain saw or it is hunting season they tend to relax even when the sound happens when they aren't working.

 

Probably a little of both...environment and genetic...all else being equal, (and it never is), I"d like them at least be able to focus while working...If they drool inthe kennel a little, that isn't so bad, but leaving the job, that is a problem

 

Cynthia

[Lenajo]

Most of my dogs can be shot over, and during dove and deer seasons they just about are I know several BCs that are used as light retrievers for dove and ducks. Quite normal considering the multiple extra purposes that many sheepdogs have served in history.

 

I've never accustommed a dog to gunfire either. The late Lena's intro was my nephew showing me what a potato gun was by firing it over us . I think I may have post trauamatic, issues but Lena was like "that's interesting, who cares?"

 

The idea that a dog would leave its work, or work substandardly, for any noise issue being "ok" is alarming from a breed standpoint. I would expect they would acknowledge the sound, maybe even startle, but unless the handler falls apart the dog should be right back at work.

 

Leaving dogs crated/tied securely should be a given in a public place. I think we all agree on that.

[SoloRiver]

The research that has been done on noise phobias in dogs (clinical and behavioral, not genetic) indicates that it shows the hallmarks of specific phobia in humans, rather than being a normal learned fear. The difference is that if you are phobic, continued exposure to that which frightens you makes you WORSE, not better (you become sensitized, rather than desensitized).

 

Individuals with phobias experience panic in response to problem stimuli, which is why anyone who's ever lived with a noise phobic dog recognizes it almost immediately (dogs vary in the exact responses they exhibit, but it's kind of like one of those "you know it when you see it" things) as their dogs will pant, pace, have dilated pupils, drool, tremble, experience elevated heart rates, and often freeze, hide, or attempt to escape. It's the same thing responsible for a "fight or flight" (autonomic sympathetic) response. Across breeds, noise phobia is related to other anxiety problems (70% of noise phobic dogs in a clinical population also presented with separation anxiety) but it doesn't seem to be in Border Collies (anecdotal evidence), which may be due to a history of selection for practical working behaviors (my hunch).

 

I don't think it's abnormal for a dog to be frightened by an unusual noise. A dog's first exposure to gunfire or thunder would certainly qualify; but a dog like my Fly, who is not noise phobic, gets over it quickly and does not remark on it later. I would argue that Cynthia's dog who grew up near a firing range was never predisposed to noise phobia to begin with and that if she had been, continued exposure to the gunfire could eventually have rendered her a basket case, or at least she would never "get over it." Owners who attempt to desensitize their phobic dogs by repeatedly exposing them to problem noises -- by firing a gun over and over next to them, or shooting off fireworks, for example -- run the risk of scrambling their dogs permanently. Flooding's not the greatest approach to use for fears anyway, and for phobias it's absolutely contraindicated.

 

Cynthia, our questionnaire is online now and much easier to fill out. Just email me and I'll get you set up!

[mjk05]

how is is possible for a thunderphobic dog to be useful and why hasn't that created a breed with a crippling level of noise sensitivity altogether?

I think the key is that most of the dogs I've known with "noise phobia" (or at least extreme reactions to certain sounds- I don't know if they are really phobic as Melanie describes) don't react when working.

 

I used to have a kelpie who was OK with thunder and fireworks (possibly because my other dog loved both?) but became increasingly terrified of things like the vacuum cleaner and kitchen blender. By the time she was 4 years old, she would leap the fence and run away in a blind panic if I took out one of these things- once she took off when I was uncoiling a rope, presumably because she thought it was the cord to the drill.

 

However, she wouldn't even notice these noises if she was doing agility.

 

Now we have a few working dogs who are similarly noise sensitive- one collie bitch is exactly like my kelpie in her sound-sensitivity and will take off in panic, looking for somewhere to hide, if we get out the vacuum cleaner (good excuse not to vacuum ).

 

A couple of our dogs are spooked by thunder, and start panting and digging into corners during storms, and some are frightened of whip-cracks and freak out at the sight of a stockwhip.

 

But all of these dogs seem able to ignore the sounds that frighten them when they are working (or focussed on working, eg on the back of the bike or ute, ready to go). My whip-shy dog doesn't blink if I crack a whip just feet from him when he's working. So from a farming perspective, it doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Most of our dogs are secured in runs or on kennels when not working, so the only reason we notice it is that they take turns as house dogs.

 

Interestingly, some of the sound-sensitive dogs are also frightened of the noise of the motor bike and we've had to do some solid groundwork from puppyhood to get them to work off a bike- but they do learn that the bike = sheepwork, so maybe its not as serious as true noise-phobia (like the vacuum-terrified issue), which does seem to get worse as they get older...

[kelpiegirl]

Since I clarified my statement with the following, but it was ignored- what do you all do when your settled in like old shoes working dog is 2 more to go and gun goes off, AND you have a dog who NEVER had an issue before, but due to the volume and proximity of the noise, the dog became a panting neurotic mess? Do you KNOW that your dog will be fine? What if you walk onto that field with the same no proble with noise dog, who is now crouching, and will NOT look for sheep. What if this same dog was in the top 10 this year (usbcha)? I suppose the dog should suck it up, and should run fine, but it sure would have been nice if that variable wasn't introduced.

 

 

I guess I should clarify my statement. The dogs who were actively being worked had no problem with the gun fire. It was the dogs who were in their crates, or tied, that got very worried/upset. It is all well and good to say "I can't wait for please all the nice hunters to put their black powder rifles away, thank you kindly." when you are at your home environment, and the dogs have had time to acclimate to the noise over a long period of time. It is a whole different situation, when you are at an event the caliber of the Bluegrass. I will also add that the WORST dogs that were affected at this event were well bred working BC's. They just happened to be sitting in their crates, minding their own business when the volley of gun fire started 20 feet away, complete with yelling and cans of smoke.

[juliepoudrier]

Okay, Now I'm confused. Julie you seem to be upset about the comments made here and I'm not sure why. Your original comments, which you quoted again above indicate that the dogs actively working weren't affected--just those who were crated and doing nothing. And everyone else seems to have concurred that dogs not actively working may be more greatly affected by loud noises. The point people are making is that one can't control all variables when out working around the farm. If the dog is so sensitive that it can't be trusted to stick around when a storm rolls up unexpectedly or the neighbor starts target practice, then I for one probably wouldn't be relying on that dog a whole lot at home, top 10 or not, unless I knew I could control either the environment, the response, or both. Of course there's always a first time when a seemingly "normal" (i.e., can work through scary noises) has a bad reaction, but as there's no predicting that there's not much a person can do.

 

I think you're taking this discussion as criticism over your comment that the police dog demo shouldn't use gunfire if the demo takes place where stockdogs are working, when in fact it's not. Becca used it was a jumping off point to discuss noise sensitivity/phobia in working dogs. Obviously it's enough of a problem that Melanie and her team mates were able to get funding to study it, so no one is saying it's not a problem. Most of us are saying that while our dogs do have issues, they are able to work despite them, and I personally stated that if I had a dog that became "useless" because of loud noises, I wouldn't breed from it. I don't see any need for the defensiveness of your responses, really.

 

If a top 10 USBCHA dog was reduced to a quivering mass by the sound of gunfire while out on the trial field, then if I were its owner, I'd be very concerned about controlling that dog's environment better, even when working. [ETA: I re-read and see the dog wasn't yet on the trial field,but my comments would still be the same.) It's doubtful in a farming environment that the dog would never hear gunfire. It's unfortunate that it happened at a trial, but it could have happened anywhere. Does that mean gunfire should be allowed at trials, well, no one has said it should be. But it doesn't change the fact that the dog in question likely would have reacted to a loud noise (how about a backfire, or the banging of metal on metal with farm machinery?) sooner or later, and I'd be surprised if the owner wasn't already aware of the issue. And if the owner wasn't aware (since noise phobias can develop at a later age), s/he can't really fault someone else for a scary noise, if one buys into the belief that scary noises are bound to happen sooner or later.

 

The last time I was at the Bluegrass, Bev Lambert was on the field and I was at the exhaust having just completed my run (with my most thunderphobic dog) when a storm blew up. This is the storm that picked up the handler's tent and threw it onto the field. Bev's run was called in the middle of all this, and we all ran for shelter. Had Bev's dog been one who was paralyzed with fear by a storm, she would have been in trouble. But no one could have predicted that the storm would blow up seemingly out of nowhere (seems to be typical Kentucky weather). Granted, the demo gunfire couldbe predicted, but it doesn't change the fact that very loud noises just sometimes happen, and a dog who can't deal with it when it happens is a problem (how big or small that problem is considered depends on the owner).

 

P.S. So did the dog suck it up and find its sheep?

 

J.

[kelpiegirl]

No, I'm not upset Julie- just frustrated that the point of my statement was ignored- it wasn't that the dog on the field could work through the noise- they were further away- it was that the dogs kept in a small area by their handlers were exposed to extreme levels, as in not far away (no more than 20 feet) of guns shooting, people yelling and smoke canisters, and that there just didn't seem to have to be any reason for that to occur at the dog event. There are LOTS of k9 demos that occur without the aforementioned extras. I have no dog in this fight I just figured it would be better if the gunfire didn't occur during a trial. If you expose your dogs to noises in the normal course of life, they (mostly I guess) learn to acclimate. This was a strange place, strange people/crowds and just a whoops by the cops. Even their own bloodhound shook. So, I guess I am just being the figurative hall monitor, in that I want things to run smoothly as possible- if that means anything Perhaps everything will be fine at the BG. But, if someone read this and decided to ask the cops not to fire their guns, maybe that's good too. The dog working, btw, did just fine- but many of the other handlers had some stressful time watching their dogs bounce off their crate walls- and some BC's just never stopped barking after that.

[Maralynn]

If the cops are firing guns in such a manner that their own dogs are shaking, I'd not be inviting them back for a second demo.

 

I guess I'm not seeing anything that should be an issue for dogs if people would use a little common sense, ie, why would you plan a demo like that right next to where all the dogs are kenneled? Or why would you leave your dog near a demo like that?

[kelpiegirl]

That's just it. This particular scenario- no one knew it was going to happen. The next year, everyone kept their dogs away from that area, and the following year, the cops were asked just to not use gun fire, and they were fine with that.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

If the dog is so sensitive that it can't be trusted to stick around when a storm rolls up unexpectedly or the neighbor starts target practice, then I for one probably wouldn't be relying on that dog a whole lot at home, top 10 or not,

 

I think that's the point. I wouldn't be working such a dog away from home, and I'd know the greater extent of his sensitivities long before trialing, because of work at home. Lots of things happen at home that are far worse than nearby gunfire (okay, raise your hand if you've accidentally almost dropped your shears on your dog while they were running - thank God Rick had quick reflexes!).

 

We can't control everything at home, and I don't think it's necessary or advisable to control everything that might happen at a stockdog trial. For many years, for instance, the VA State Fair trial seemed to be involved in a contest to top itself in distractions placed next to the field. Some of them will become legend no doubt - the Ferris Wheel, the motor cycle races, and the famous Giant Lizard Thing.

 

I wasn't sure, Julie (kg), what you were saying - I think I missed your description of the dog trial you describe. I thought your earlier comment referred to an agility event. My use of that post was really more of a stream of consciousness thing. I'll try to answer this time.

 

What if you walk onto that field with the same no proble with noise dog, who is now crouching, and will NOT look for sheep.

 

I'd treat it like a dog I noticed limping before or while going out. I'd call off or excuse ourselves to the judge and go find out what was wrong. USBCHA top ten, or last run in the Championship round of the Finals, or if it's just gathering the sheep for the evening at home. I'd be more concerned about such a reaction in a pathological sense, than as a training issue or where that puts me in competition. Especially since what you describe sounds like a seizure event - I'd be terrified and might require carrying off the field myself!

 

One works to keep one's dog safe as much as possible, but for the good of the breed as a whole, we can't wrap trials in bubble packaging - next we'll be demanding trained sheep, fields where every line is visible, and drawing up written guidelines to standardize courses and using wheels to mark them out, so they'll be "fair." It's up to individuals, and should remain so, to evaluate every working situation to see whether it's an appropriate one for one's dog.

 

For instance, I wouldn't run a dog lacking in confidence, in certain trials, because I know the sheep are sulled and wouldn't want that experience. That's my choice. I don't blame the trial director for using such sheep and in fact am likely enter that same trial at another time, deliberately, to further the training on my dog. If I enter a trial and realize the sheep are beating my dog, or they are not right for him, we'll walk off and I'll go home and work on the training point which was made clear by that experience. I'm not a world beater and never will be, so for me that's what trialing's about.

[DTrain]

I have never attended a trials where there was gunfire and I would not. I can't imagine why there would be gunfire at a trials on purpose anyway for any reason. However, I have seen top BC's work during a thunderstorm. All of them have been sensitive to and aware of the noise in one fashion or another ranging from trying to make visual contact to a full stop. I have never seen one stop working completely. My dogs are aware of thunder. They don't stop working but they will respond to any loud noise when they are not working sometimes by showing fear. I do not have a problem with a dog that is friegtened of repeated loud noises such as gun fire. My dogs would never encounter such a situation in their normal environment. The occational load noise is one thing but repeated over and over is another. If a dog is frieghtened of load sounds that do not fit into their normal environment they should be entitled to that. Border collies where never bred in an environment where load noises outside of natural sounds would have been present very often. We all know BC's are very sensative and aware of sounds. Quite frankly repeated loud noises make me nervous at least to the extent that I would like to know what is going on. The person that mentioned the bikes has a very good idea. I have no idea how she trained her dogs to accept the bike noise but it is a good idea to train your dog to do something other than run away when they encounter a problem. It happens rarely but in situations where my dogs have encountered a problem that they are not sure about or even scared of they return to me. On a funny note we recently moved from out west to down east. My dogs have never encountered some of the creatures we have around our new home. There is a bird here that has a quick high repeated whistle call. Whenever my lead dog hears this bird he stops and turns in the direction of the sound. He usually looks back at me for another command to resume work.

[juliepoudrier]

My dogs would never encounter such a situation in their normal environment. The occational load noise is one thing but repeated over and over is another.

Just a point of clarification. I live in redneck country (not meant in a derogatory way), and lots of folks around here shoot for target practice (it's what you can do when you can't hunt, after all). My neighbors and I have done such shooting as well. Most folks around here hunt, often on their own property. The black powder rifle guy that was a neighbor where Becca used to live (and is the same person Melanie mentioned) used to target shoot too. Where I used to live, across the street from my neighbor was a fellow who regularly target shot. If I had to move sheep and cattle at my neighbor's place, it was a fact of life that we would likely hear gun shots. I can't speak for everyone everywhere, but here in the SE United States, hearing regular gun shots is neither surprising nor abnormal. My dogs still don't necessarily like it, but those folks are on their property engaged in a legal activity (as we are when we target shoot--and you do need practice if you hope to shoot a coyote or marauding dogs and make the shot count), so you learn to live with it. Heck, if we have a downer sheep that needs to be put out of its misery, then the dogs will hear a gunshot there as well....

 

Oh, and as for why there might be gunfire at a trial (though this was an isolated incident), many of the bigger trials will have demos going on of other dog activities. In this case, it was a police demo, so it's not entirely surprising there were shots fired. Maybe it was a misjudgment on someone's part, but that's about all you can say about it.

 

If we trust at least some historical accounts of border collies, there certainly were times when guns were fired around them.

 

Note that this is not in any way being apologist for the shortsightedness of having guns at a demo right next to where dogs were working, but the fact is that gunfire isn't exactly rare in rural areas....

 

J.

[DTrain]

Just a point of clarification. I live in redneck country (not meant in a derogatory way), and lots of folks around here shoot for target practice (it's what you can do when you can't hunt, after all). My neighbors and I have done such shooting as well. Most folks around here hunt, often on their own property. The black powder rifle guy that was a neighbor where Becca used to live (and is the same person Melanie mentioned) used to target shoot too. Where I used to live, across the street from my neighbor was a fellow who regularly target shot. If I had to move sheep and cattle at my neighbor's place, it was a fact of life that we would likely hear gun shots. I can't speak for everyone everywhere, but here in the SE United States, hearing regular gun shots is neither surprising nor abnormal. My dogs still don't necessarily like it, but those folks are on their property engaged in a legal activity (as we are when we target shoot--and you do need practice if you hope to shoot a coyote or marauding dogs and make the shot count), so you learn to live with it. Heck, if we have a downer sheep that needs to be put out of its misery, then the dogs will hear a gunshot there as well....

 

Oh, and as for why there might be gunfire at a trial (though this was an isolated incident), many of the bigger trials will have demos going on of other dog activities. In this case, it was a police demo, so it's not entirely surprising there were shots fired. Maybe it was a misjudgment on someone's part, but that's about all you can say about it.

 

If we trust at least some historical accounts of border collies, there certainly were times when guns were fired around them.

 

Note that this is not in any way being apologist for the shortsightedness of having guns at a demo right next to where dogs were working, but the fact is that gunfire isn't exactly rare in rural areas....

 

J.

 

Good point J. I have never been exposed to a situation such as yours. BC's seem to be sensative to noise and sound. Even the slightest sound from me gets their attention. It is interesting to note that if I make a sound they have never heard before they respond sometimes with excitment. If my lead dog hears a livestock sound on TV he gets excited. He loves to watch rodeo. I have no answers to the fear response from sounds but I have always been very curious as to how they can hear a storm coming long before I do. I am amazed that they can hear me make commands at 600 years. I am not sure it was mentioned in this thread but I have always thought that there may be something to the feel of a sound that bothers BC's. For example the feel of an explosion. It may be part sound and part feel that makes them scared. I have no idea. they are smater than me.

[juliepoudrier]

I believe one reason the dogs can sense a storm coming long before we do is because they are more sensitive to changes in barometric pressure. I have one thunderphobe who will let me know when a storm's coming--it can still be sunny with no hint of thunderheads anywhere, but he'll know, and he's quite accurate.

 

J.

[SoloRiver]

A lot of them do seem to cue off barometric pressure changes. Solo never has; I always know a storm is coming long before he does (which was handy for when I was giving him Xanax for storms). However, during storm season he would learn the association between the noise and the rain itself, with the upshot being that he didn't enjoy summer rains very much when we lived on the east coast whether there was accompanying thunder or not. Luckily, after moving to the west coast, he seems to have unlearned that association. East coast summers were not happy-making for Solo

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I live in a farming area and during hunting season, the guns are always going off. The pups that I have raised are used to it and the dogs I get in get used to it. I just keep working them when the guns go off.

 

Nan, when I first got her was very gun-shy ,and would run to the gate or if she was tied up...she would try to dig under the fence or crawl over it....so then I would work her I would take her and Tess would work a brace during the very nosiest times. Now mind you, Nan is very jealous when I work Tess and will work 2X as hard if I am working them together.

 

Once when I was moving over 100 sheep and then the guns goes off and Nan looks like she is ready to bolt to the gate when I run at the sheep and yell..."YEAH- HA, get the sheep" and the sheep all scatter and Tess break hard to one side to cover and Nan looks and sees TESS WORKING with me, and she dashes back to help...after all she is 3X the speed of Tess and heaven forbid that TESS is working and she IS NOT...so after a few sessions, she is much better....she will flinch and break stride but I just have to ssshhhh her and she gets into her groove again. But she is not gun proof like Tessis but over time, she will be better.

 

I tried to work her by herself during the gunfire and she was very nervous still but the brace work seems to fire up her since she wants to outdo Tess (or whatever it is in her mind)...

 

Diane

[DTrain]

It is Victoria Day in Canada which means fireworks. We live close to a park where there was a fireworks display last night so we conducted an experiment with our dogs. ( I wonder if dogs learn to fear loud noises because we do ). My wife and I decided to not respond to the fireworks noises in any fashion. When the fireworks started the dog we have had the longest came to me to hide under my legs. Our best working dog got up and paced came to me and settled down quickly. Our youngest dog was curious and seemed to be looking to us for a response which was interesting. With no response from us he paced with his father and settle down. Toward the end of the display we decided to respond to the noise with alarm by getting up and saying, what was that. The dog we have had the longest ran and hid under a table. Our best working dog got up and followed me around and our youngest dog, not yet one, jumped up and ran for his nearest toy for a play session. Some history. The dog we have had the longest has always been affraid of loud noises. We lived in the mountais and whenever we heard thunder we would check to see the storm coming and respond accordingly. The dog would usually hide under a table or come to me and I would pet him. Did he learn his fear from us. Our best working dog who has always responded to loud noises by looking for them has always just worked through the noise. He does not seem to have learned a response from us. Our youngest dog will respond to the noise but has not yet seemed to have developed a fear. The fact that he paced with his father and later ran for a toy might indicate he is trying to figure out what to do. Interesting, we will keep an eye on them from now on and try to learn more.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

My first dogs were all thunderphobic. I haven't had a dog I raised myself, in years, that was thunderphobic. And I had one from a line that seems to have very strong tendencies for noise sensitivity - she was never bothered by it. Dogs who come here with thunderphobia tend to improve. I believe it's the environment here. I love storms and am never bothered by them. And the onset of severe storms means work, because I have no pastures with good shelter (just trees).

 

Little Bet, a recent arrival, for instance, was so thunderphobic she'd open the sliding shower door and crawl in, long before a storm hit. She'd leave sheep, at first, and hide under my truck or in the garage. I think for her it was the connection between work and an approaching storm. For a while this early spring, I had to use her quite often because Cord was recovering from surgery and an injury, and Ted wasn't ready for prime time.

 

So now she is aware of an approaching storm, and it makes her nervous, but her new response is to come stare at me or get up next to me if we don't go work. This is what all my thunderphobic dogs do (Ben and Cord are the other two).