Vicki G. Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Zoey, my 13 mo bc, will have her first herding training tomorrow, and I must say I am nervous. I don't know how much the instructor will expect her to know. She has a solid recall and down off of stock, but b/c I have never trained a dog to herd I havent been able to do this with her. I did not want to teach her bad habits b/c of my lack of knowledge. We have a farm with cattle, and my sister has sheep, so she has seen stock and has been turned on to them since 6 mo. The couple of times I have exposed her to stock, to see if she had the desire, she went around and balanced herself to me and began to move them to me. I have lurked here for about year and I have learned a lot, but I need to see things to be able to understand some of the things that are discussed. I have also been to a trial that came to my area- how amazing to see the open dogs work! I also made dh go to the novice field so that he would know were Zoey would start! I am only 10 minutes from trainer. Would it be better to leave her at the trainers or to take her there several times a week if I have the option. We are located in Ky and she will be going to Vergil Holland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 she will be going to Vergil Holland. vicki, you are in good hands. A recall and a down are great...though they may forget them when they see stock. Vergil will be able to tell you what type of lessons, exposure etc would be best for you and your dog. Enjoy it and take pictures. cynthia P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip's Mum Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I am so envious; I'd give my right arm (well, almost) to 1) have a farm, 2) have a sister with sheep, 3) be 10 minutes from training with Vergil Holland, and 4) live in Kentucky. You guys have a TON going for you. Relax and enjoy the ride... and like Cynthia said -- PICTURES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I am taking my husband to take pictures, so hopefully he will do a good job at that. I know we are very lucky and I am so excited! Vergil wanted me to wait until she was 12 mo, for the mental maturity, but I've known since she was a pup that we wanted to do this. We have cattle so eventually the idea is for her to help with farm chores, but I know most be start with sheep. She definitely wouldn't mind starting with cattle, she has no fear, and I want to keep her that way with good experiences until we are ready for that. Crossing my fingers that she remembers some manners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 You're in good hands with Vergil! There are 2 good trials in Lexington in the next 3 weeks too - you should plan to come and watch. The first is actually in Harrodsburg and the Shaker Village (next weekend) and then the best trial in the East is 1.5 weeks later at Masterson Station park in Lexington. We'll be there! Oh btw, i have several videos of my young dogs (Bill, Bart and Moss) in their early sessions with sheep on Youtube, if you want to see what it'll be like. You can get there from my blog or homepage (below). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I have heard lots of good things about Vergil and liked him when I met him in Feb at a trial in Georgetown area. I can't go to the trial this weekend (brother in law on leave from Iraq), but will definitely be at the Bluegrass and hopefully the one the weekend before. I have watched your videos and love them! They really help a newbie like me, put a visual to the things that are discussed on this board and the things that I read. It is nice to have someone take the time to do that. I hope to meet the people whose names I will recognize from this board at the trials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Glad you enjoyed the videos. I've been putting up some training and handling stuff in my blog. Feel free to send questions if you'd like them answered there. And have a great time at Vergil's! Tell him i said hi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 I didn't know about your blog and but I will be checking it out now that I do, Thanks. I will tell Vergil hi for you- If I can remember anything tomorrow I hopefully will have a good report to post tomorrow! Thanks for the encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 It sounds like you have the ideal set-up for learning about about stockwork with Zoey Hope tomorrow goes great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 How did the lesson go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 The lesson went very good! She was in the pen with Vergil and 4 sheep and was immediately interested. She quickly learned what distance he wanted her to work from and kept the sheep together and put the ones who broke away back. He took her in twice and the 2nd time he said she picked it right up. He will be able to start training her in June- he's busy right now of course with the trials coming up. She was a little hesitant about coming to him when he asked- she's used to mostly me giving her commands so my husband is going to work on that until June. Thankfully she did go to him, but she looked at me like Mom whats going on? It was a bittersweet weekend, Zoey trained on Saturday did very well, then on sunday my 12 yo english mastiff passed on. This was my first dog to pass away so we are of course devasted and trying to get through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I really enjoy Virgils book Progressive training, I check stuff out in it all the time. I think Id like working with him too. Sorry to hear about you "biggest" passing on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Thank you, this is much harder than I had feared, but her body had given out on her so it was a relief in some ways. I was a little intimidated because I also read Vergils book and have heard many people say good things about him, and I couldn't be any greener as far as herding. I am used to stock and know about pressure, because it's usually me doing the herding but that's the extent of my experience. He made me comfortable with asking questions and explained to my DH and myself the things he was doing to Zoey and why (not letting her cross in front of him etc.) It was great and my husband who hasn't really shown an interest in the training part (I think he's waiting for the finished product ) was really interested in the lesson and surprised at how good Zoey did for her first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Aw, i'm sorry to hear about your mastiff. You're in good hands with Vergil. He's started about a zillion new handlers as well as dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Thank you. After watching him with Zoe, my husband said we are going to leave her here! The patience that he had and how quickly she understood what he wanted was great. We have had a farm for 10 yrs and it will be great to have help. I learn a lot just reading the posts on here- Im addicted I read everyday. Any opinion on if leaving her for a month would be better than 2-3 days week? Will this be more stressful for her? I'm only ten minutes away so I could go several times a week also when she's there. She's a bit spoiled- she is very obedient with me, but when someone else tells her to do something she sometimes looks at me to see if this is ok. I thought staying might help with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 It's probably best to just leave her there and let her concentrate on getting trained. I'd ask Vergil's opinion since he'll be the one working with her, but the dogs adjust quickly and get right with the routine. After you get her back, you'll have to concentrate on the more difficult part of the process - getting yourself trained. One thing i really like about Vergil is that he seems to genuinely like the dogs, even after so many years and so many have passed through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Thanks for the advice. I was leaning towards leaving her there- I think she will progress faster. And yes- I will be the weak link for a while. Zoe has that amazing bc instinct to help her, while I am starting fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 I am used to stock and know about pressure, because it's usually me doing the herding but that's the extent of my experience. This might just be one of the best things you could do to prepare yourself for learning about working stock with a dog. A major problem many people have (myself particularly) is not understanding or being able to "read" stock. Doing the work yourself, without a dog, is an excellent way to train yourself to read the stock. It is also something some trainers do - rather than having you work your dog, they may have you "be the dog" and they work you, so that you can learn about pressure and reading stock better. See, you are already on the right path - good preparation for yourself and a great trainer for you and your dog! Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 At the trial this weekend, we superiour humans had to work the 4 yearlings that would. not. go. into. the. exhaust. I have been to clinics and learned about the heart of the sheep, and pressure and where to put it, and when to let it off. This was truly an exercise in that. We had a dog at flanking positions, with the handler, two humans one on each wing of the funnel we made- then we were admonished to MOVE OUT. So, we did as we were told. Then we had another dog come out. I wished so bad that Lucy could have helped- it is her highest enjoyment to cover stock, and put them where I want them... But, I digress. I guess the point of this, is that everyone needs to be well schooled in stock sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki G. Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 It's nice to know that I may have one thing going for me. When you and your husband have to move 60 cow/calf pairs without a dog you learn when to push and when to back off- if not you have calves scattered everywhere. We learned that the hard way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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