handicapped, or not up to snuff, physically

[kelpiegirl]

Not sure what the PC word is for this, but I am curious, do any of you know any folks who handle dogs at home, and/or on the trial field who have physical challenges? I know of Ilsa, and she is incredible. Anyone else? I am curious as to how things work, and are these dogs also dual purpose- that is, help with other things... Just a point of discussion on a cold, icy day.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I was quite walker-bound, then used a cane, for over a year after and accident which also left me wheelchair bound for four months. I wasn't even at the farm for most of the time I was in the wheelchair, so that's impossible for me to imagine, but I had to do all the usual lambing stuff - we lambed sixty ewes that year - while using that walker. It was actually, in many ways, easier to do things out there than getting around the house and doing simple things like cleaning out the fridge or loading the dishwasher.

 

I did have to get help when I banded - we did about half the lambs in one pass and then half in another, so many were getting fairly large. But I made sure I was getting out and doing tags and whatnot right away when the lambs were easy to catch. Rick was fantastic with lambs and would keep the lambs right within reach for me - while making sure the ewes didn't get too close.

 

That was my last year trialing and I had no problem getting around. I do remember almost falling over laughing trying to get to the pen quick enough at Roy Johnson's - Rick wasn't pushing them - they just were running! I was laughing because I knew that was going to happen. I did get there in time but didn't get the gate open quite quick enough - but we got our pen anyway.

 

It would have been a bigger problem running in the lower classes where the lines were shorter or required handler assistance but Rick was pretty much trained. That helped a ton both around the farm and on the trial field.

[Lenajo]

I know of 2 handlers who train via scooters. The one I know best - she trains strongly with obedience basics from early on. Dogs must listen absolutely, respect her tone in particular. She starts her dogs from pups - runs them open level.

[NCStarkey]

In Becca's post, she mentioned a top trainer and handler who is definitely "challenged" physically, Roy Johnson from Virginia. Many board members know that Roy lost both of his arms (below the elbow) in a horrible farming accident many years ago. Roy does utilize rudimentary prosthetics, but after his accident, he understandably felt that there wasn't much of a future for a farmer without hands. Then, fate brought a big, red Border Collie pup Roy's way (the illustrious Roscoe P. Coltrain), and that began Roy's involvement with working stockdogs. Roy taught Roscoe numerous tasks to assist him around the farm, in addition to the big dog being a outstanding partner for Roy on the trial field. Fast forward to 2007, and that same Virginia farmer, Roy Johnson, won the USBCHA Cattledog Open Finals last May in Wyoming with his dog Sonny. Roy should be an inspiration to us all, as someone who certainly doesn't let a physical challenge limit his accomplishments.

 

Regards to all,

nancy

[Sue R]

Roy is not only an inspiration but, with his terrific sense of humor and practical approach to life, he is a hoot! I particularly enjoy seeing him working or watching dogs, prosthetics hanging down "at ease" (often with a can of something tucked into one for ready access), and a "can do" attitude. He and his wonderful wife, Debbie, are mainstays in the Virginia Border Collie Association and two of the nicest, most welcoming folks a novice could ever meet.

 

I am proud to have a youngster who has Roscoe in his dam's line, and be able to claim acquaintance with Roy and Debbie.

 

I don't think we always realize how many people work their dogs with one impediment or another. I can think of a board member who has a physical challenge but you'd never know it to see her working.

 

And I just whine about being old (can't help that) and fat (could help that) and a slow learner.

[juliepoudrier]

The interesting thing about working dogs and Roy's life is that he didn't have much will to live after the accident (it was a hay baler that took his hands I believe), and it was the dog who got him back out and on the farm doing what he loves.

 

The funny thing about Roy was that when Julie W. mentioned handicaps, Roy didn't even come to mind--I don't really even notice his "handicap" and it certainly hasn't slowed him down.

 

I thought I had a picture of Roy, but I don't, so here's a picture of Sonny instead.

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

when Julie W. mentioned handicaps, Roy didn't even come to mind--I don't really even notice his "handicap" and it certainly hasn't slowed him down.

 

Me too! I always forget completely about it. It's not that it doesn't matter - he's a real inspiration. But the fact that it just fades into the backround - it's just amazing.

 

ETA: I have also known many handlers with chronic illnesses, or who handled into their nineties and practically passed on of age, with the crook in hand (RIP Ralph Pulfer). Ethel Conrad, last I saw, was still getting out there with her dogs (how's she doing, by the way?).

 

I think the most interesting thing is how a good dog really can make it easy, save steps, and simplify things so that working with livestock is achievable even when facing challenges like physical disability, or small stature, or disease.

 

Now I just need to find a dog that will make up for brain fog.

[Sue R]

Now I just need to find a dog that will make up for brain fog.

 

Find one for me, too.

[kelpiegirl]

They had a guy on tv a while back, who was injured and got a Golden Retriever to help him do chores with the cattle/livestock. The dog opened gates, shut them, picked things up, you name it. It allowed the other family members to attend to their lives, and give the guy a true sense of independence. To me, this sums up why dogs sit so high on our list of most favorite beings. Not just because they "do" for us, but because they want to. The gentleman who lost his arms; I have never met him, but he sounds like a real role model for those of us who whine about much smaller things. Talk about inspirational.

[NCStarkey]

Hello again everyone,

 

This thread is becoming quite a tribute to Roy, so I thought that I would share some more about this inspirational man. After Roy's accident in 1985 (he lost his lower arms when they became entangled in a round baler), Roy was quite depressed. After all, he was a farmer, and just about every farming chore requires the use of one's hands. During this time, Roy's friends would take him to various sporting events, and one of these events was a sheepdog trial. Roy was enthralled watching the partnership of the dogs and handlers, and his comment afterward was (I'm paraphrasing here), "I'll bet even a man with no hands could do that!". So, then Roy acquired Roscoe, and Roy credits that dog with saving his life. Roy taught Roscoe to do many of the tasks around the farm that were difficult (or impossible) for Roy to do, and that dog would probably have climbed up into the barn rafters and chased the pigeons away if Roy had asked him to.

 

Years ago in the Mid Atlantic region, there was a sheepdog trial that pitted the "North" against the "South", the Mason-Dixon Sheepdog Trial. The trial alternated between Ethel Conrad's farm in Virginia and Nathan Mooney's farm in Pennsylvania. The handlers would have a bit of fun at this trial (one year Tommy Wilson went to the post with a rifle instead of a crook, Ethel's station wagon contained a "coffin" which contained an unfortunate northerner, etc.), but the handlers were still quite competitive. I recall watching Roy's run with Roscoe at one of the Mason-Dixon trials held at Ethel's Sunnybrook Farm, and it demonstrated perfectly that Roscoe was far more than your average sheepdog. The Sunnybrook Barbados were well known for their occasional "uncooperativeness", and Roy had one Barb that definitely marched to the beat of a different drummer. Roy was working on penning his group, and all but one went into the pen (and the single sheep ran a distance away). Roy flanked Roscoe behind the pen to push the others back out to regroup with the single (it is usually more sensible to take the group to the single rather than try to work the single to the group, especially that single!!!). Well, those Barbs in the pen wouldn't budge, despite Roscoe's efforts from outside the pen. But, Roy "had an ace up his sleeve", and his next command to his dog was "Roscoe, jump in the pen". The crowd was amazed as that big red dog sailed over the fence and into the pen with the Barbs, which made a hasty escape (the look on the Barbs faces was priceless...they didn't have a clue that a dog could do that!). Roy and Roscoe then regrouped the sheep and penned the bunch. Just another run for that team!

 

Also, here is the URL for a photo of Roy and Sunny taken by Denise Wall: http://lassiegethelp.blogspot.com/2007/08/...ns-roundup.html

 

Regards to all,

nancy

[Sue R]

I've scribed for Roy and been judged by him. He never has judged me without giving me a helpful comment as I came off the field - usually, "What did you do ___ for?" followed by helpful advice.

 

I never knew the story about his accident. Thanks, ladies, for some insight into this man who can't be called either "handicapped, or not up to snuff, physically".

 

How about Allen Hickenbottom? Just weeks after almost dying (his doctors considered his survival and recovery a "medical miracle"), he was back on the trial field. These dogs can get you out and going when you might hardly have a chance otherwise.

 

The last thing I heard about Ethel was that she was in a care facility. When I saw her less than two years ago, she was on the mule, driving around to check things and people out at the last Blue Ridge SDT held at her lovely Sunnybrook Farm.

 

She'd drive up to new arrivals (and folks who'd been there for some hours, like me, who were not notable or known entities) and say, "And who the h*** are you?". Once she got your name (and maybe put you in your place by saying she'd never heard of you and where were you from?), you'd be welcomed. What a character and strong personality, and a legend in the history of Border Collies in the US!

[Pippin's person]

Not to take this afield, but I'm interested to hear that Roscoe was a red dog--that'll be a good bit of info to tuck away for the next round of "red dogs aren't good sheepdogs because X" discussions (I know that one example doesn't break the rule--more like the exception that can prove it, but it's still good to have one to bring forth)

 

Closer to topic--I also think this is a fascinating question and, like others, a real testament to what is possible in dog/person teams. I agree with Julie that it's part of what makes the interactions between our two species so fascinating.

[juliepoudrier]

Robin,

There are plenty of good red dogs out there--even a recent International Supreme winner. Red is carried in some very important working lines, so it'll always pop up. For example, the grandsire of the 2006 cattle nursery champion Pete (and 3rd place open dog in 2007) was a red dog, Imp. Mirk. He is also my Twist's grandsire (and Rosco is her great grandsire on her dam's side). Dee Penatzer runs a very nice open dog named Sparks (she's red). Sam Furman had success with her red dog Jill before she retired her and I got her. Sam has a young red male named Fred that she has also done quite well with. There is a woman in VA who runs a red dog named Toby. She hasn't moved to open yet, but she's been quite successful with him (he's a littermate to Tom Forrester's Pete mentioned above). I'm sure if you wanted lots of ammo on good working red dogs, all you'd need to do is start a thread and ask folks to name the ones they know and you'd get plenty!

 

J.

[Liz P]

This a bitch I used to own who goes back to Roscoe and "looks just like him" according to Roy, especially her nose/head. I had her tied out to my truck at a trial he was judging and he stopped dead in his tracks and walked over to ask if she was related.

 

 

Oh, and Roy can judge my runs any day. He has given me some great advice and wasn't afraid to say that my dog had done a better job than I had

[Pippin's person]

One of the judges who told me that red dogs are not very good in his experience then qualified that after my red dog ran (in Novice only--so nothing earth-shattering--but it was a fine run except for my own colossal screw-up at the pen) and qualified that "if a red dog's good, it'll be a liver colored one...." Maybe he was thinking of Roscoe and line....

 

My comment about the red ones was kind of off-the-cuff. I know there are good ones--as has been discussed before--I think the fact that so many BCs are being bred to be red at the moment helps foster an anti-red dog bias among some.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I knew a terrific red dog - Wilson's Imp Roy line, which also carries red. I think most of the good ones do carry it, honestly - some of the nicer crosses of lines readily available to us will bring it right out. The Burtersett Lad (Wilson's Lad, Ligon's Shy, Lacy's Tru) lines carry it too - his sire was a hot headed redhead named Tweed, who also figures in several other lines. Imp Jim (the Bomber) goes back to Templeton's Moss, another carrier of red (and the sire of Wilson's Roy, not mention his own Roy). Ditto Alisdair's old Ben.

 

I could go on and on! But I won't [sighs of relief from the peanut gallery].

 

I love clerking for Roy too (uh, the person). He's so thorough in making sure you understand what's going on, and yet also incredibly tactful (though very humorous).

 

Sunnybrook Barbados were well known for their occasional "uncooperativeness"

 

"Occasional"? HEE. I'm really going to miss those beasts - some of the best entertainment at a trial or clinic. I hope for all the best for Ethel.

 

I was scared to death of her for the first two years I knew her. My very first clinic my dog bit one of her sheep. I was so ashamed, that I thought she was holding it against me when she was so gruff with me.

 

Then one day I was fastening a gate behind someone who had taken some sheep through. She drove up and demanded, "What the h@ll are you doing? Why are you fooling with that gate? Stop that! Who ARE you?" I started to stutter and she got more, um, positive - in the sense that Jack Knox uses it if anyone here has heard that. Like, the opposite of mealymouthed, which is what I was being at that moment.

 

Then I just got annoyed. This was my fourth clinic (without my dog biting anything) and she should treat me like I belonged there, I thought! "Jack TOLD me to fix this gate and that's what I'm doing! If you don't like it take it up with him!"

 

Most of you who know Ms. Conrad are laughing at me by now - "It took two years to figure out that Ethel likes attitude?" She grinned at me, demanded my name (again), and never forgot anything about me or gave me grief again.