KrisK Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 First off - this isn't a BC it is a GSD. I'm the president of our kennel club - I am NOT by any means an obedience instructor and leave this to those qualified. We offer obedience classes, etc in our small community. Short background - this GSD suffered a broken leg as a puppy whene stepped on by a horse - as a result of the subsequent treatments - he apparently now considers ALL humans as the 'evil pain givers'. Two of my trainers have said he is not dog aggressive but people aggessive. they do not want him in their classes because he is extremely disruptive (owner having to restrain him physically!) His owner has him in a class wearing a muzzle. I have one trainer who thinks she can 'handle' the situation by having the owner & dog stay in the middle of the room while the other class members go about the class routines. I think this is a disaster waiting to happen.....I need some input from any of you who are trainers - Is this really something you would do???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate40541 Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I'm not an obedience instructor but I wouldn't like to be in a class with this dog as another student. He needs help and I hope he can get it but I still wouldn't want to be in the class with him until he had gotten the help he needs from a qualified applied animal behaviorist, a trainer experienced in working with aggressive dogs, or a veterinary specialist in behavior (I got those from Patricia McConnell's booklet The Cautious Canine). Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Not an expert here, but my originally VERY reactive dog took puppy class after a 1-on-1 consult with the instructor. The instructor warned the rest of the owners about us, and let them say "Nope, not comfy" if they didn't want us there. We sat waaaaay in the back, far from the other dogs, and removed ourselves as soon as my dog started getting nervous (growling, etc.). After 6 weeks, he could almost make it through the class without reacting to a puppy's movements. Next time around (a few months later), he handled the class as a regular participant, with little modification made. So... maybe... special acknowledgment of the issues. Could the dog/owner use the class as just a positive human situation - lots of treats, no close approaches, leaving as soon as there's a problem? Desensitization? Good luck! Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi, we had a similar situation at our local dog club with an aggressive GSD. This dogs main problem was undersocialisation. If the dog is being disruptive he is clearly over his threshold and should not be in a situation where this occurs. This will only reinforce the behaviour. He should not be in a situation where he is having be physically restrained. Not fair to the dog and dangerous for the other innocent dogs and people in the class and as to the potential legal implications. Our chief instructor got our member and his GSD to work in a secure fenced area adjacent to the main class at a distance where he could work safely and was comfortable and not reacting. Over the process of the year the dog was eventually able to join in the class wearing a muzzle and was very much improved but it took a lot of time. He was not allowed to work around beginners classes where people can be pretty clueless at times, only experienced members and their dogs and with their agreement. These members realy helped out with desensitisation and the GSD really responded really well. I agree that before this occurs the dog needs to be assessed by a professional so an appropriate course of action can be taken. Obedience classes especially beginners classes can be very unhelpful to dogs like this. The person should also shop around for a professional whose techniques they feel comfortable with. We have reactive rover classes run by one of our professionals for dogs with issues but the dog has to have a full assessment by herself and a veterinary specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm a trainer by trade and I would NEVER put a dog like you describe in the middle of a ring of students ever, muzzle or not. If I were to incorporate such a dog into class, it would be behind a visual barrier and at a distance where he did not react to humans (below threshold). Of course, human aggressive dogs are referred out in my training center due to liability issues all around, too. All human aggression cases are referred to a fellow trainer who works closely with a veterinarian experienced in behavior issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haleigh Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 that dog NEEDS one on one way before it can handle group classes...then the trainer can decide if the dog is ready to be in a group class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilli and jago Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm not a trainer either but I agree, flooding the dogs is not gonna help it conquer its fears, its gonna make them worse. The dog needs to gradually learn that humans aren't scary by gradually exposing and desensitising it to things it can cope with and building up Its an accident waiting to happen IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Umm, sounds like the other people will be guinea pigs for this dog's rehab. No, this dog needs one on one like Haleigh suggested. This dog also needs to learn that it cannot go ballistic, even if it is afraid. One thing that Ceasar says (and I am still on the fence about him) is that we can't live in the past with our dogs, we have to move forward. Now, the forward part is where the disconnect between he and I sit. I would suggest this dog be seen by a good handler, who can ask for and get obedience, and slowly desensitize the dog to others. There was a CM episode where they took an aggressive GSD to a Schutzhund trainer, and that man did wonders with that dog- using a toy and basic obedience. First off - this isn't a BC it is a GSD. I'm the president of our kennel club - I am NOT by any means an obedience instructor and leave this to those qualified. We offer obedience classes, etc in our small community. Short background - this GSD suffered a broken leg as a puppy whene stepped on by a horse - as a result of the subsequent treatments - he apparently now considers ALL humans as the 'evil pain givers'. Two of my trainers have said he is not dog aggressive but people aggessive. they do not want him in their classes because he is extremely disruptive (owner having to restrain him physically!) His owner has him in a class wearing a muzzle. I have one trainer who thinks she can 'handle' the situation by having the owner & dog stay in the middle of the room while the other class members go about the class routines. I think this is a disaster waiting to happen.....I need some input from any of you who are trainers - Is this really something you would do???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks for the quick replies. You have all confirmed what my gut feeling is about this situation. I'm going to go head to head with the instructor on this one today. Good mojo requested! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Mojo coming!! Good for you for standing up for what you believe is best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Wild Child Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 So how have things gone? We do not allow people aggressive dogs in our classes - accident(disaster) waiting to happen, muzzle or no muzzle as other people have already said. This is a liability issue and if the club has insurance, you could be jeopardizing your insurance coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.