1sheepdoggal Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I am taking a pup to sheep this evening. I have been working on his stop/lie down/ stay since he was very young, and off sheep, he is dependable even with distractions and has a reliable recall. I am assuming there may be a bit of bowling pin action in the begining, and perhaps even a total lapse of obedience when it comes to giving him a stop command when first taken in with the sheep. I will have a 30 foot line attached to him. In case of a total lapse of OB while in there, he is 7 months, how insistant should I be that he take the stop command. I dont want to use the recall that much, as he may start to ignore it as it will take him off the sheep. He is very keen and mature for his age. His dam was an early bloomer as well. I am taking him in tonight with the plan of just having him circle the sheep and try to get him to change direction a few times. But also want to see if he will react to the stop command on balance. It wont be a long session, perhaps 10 minuets. Should I insist that he stop? Lest he decides to ignore the command, and then learn that its ok to do so? Or that he can hear the command 5 times and finally stop on the 6th. Thus setting up a bad training experience? If it were an older dog, I wouldnt hesitate to correct ignorant behavior, but with a pup on sheep, Im wondering how insistant should I be. Or should I be at all? Darci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbernard2424 Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I am taking a pup to sheep this evening. I have been working on his stop/lie down/ stay since he was very young, and off sheep, he is dependable even with distractions and has a reliable recall. I am assuming there may be a bit of bowling pin action in the begining, and perhaps even a total lapse of obedience when it comes to giving him a stop command when first taken in with the sheep. I will have a 30 foot line attached to him. In case of a total lapse of OB while in there, he is 7 months, how insistant should I be that he take the stop command. I dont want to use the recall that much, as he may start to ignore it as it will take him off the sheep. He is very keen and mature for his age. His dam was an early bloomer as well. I am taking him in tonight with the plan of just having him circle the sheep and try to get him to change direction a few times. But also want to see if he will react to the stop command on balance. It wont be a long session, perhaps 10 minuets. Should I insist that he stop? Lest he decides to ignore the command, and then learn that its ok to do so? Or that he can hear the command 5 times and finally stop on the 6th. Thus setting up a bad training experience? If it were an older dog, I wouldnt hesitate to correct ignorant behavior, but with a pup on sheep, Im wondering how insistant should I be. Or should I be at all? Darci Darci, You should be able to stop him using your body pressure ... but if he is absolutely wild and stupid when on sheep, put him up until he's more mature. Too much pressure on a young dog is never a good idea. Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 We can always hope that body pressure would be enough, though young and exubreant doesnt always pay as much attention to pressure, as much as a verbal command ( given the integrity of it) and pressure may simply cause him to push out more and continue to circle, just further out. I dont think he will be too wild, and I hope that I can read my dog well enough to know wether I'll need to put him up for a bit longer after we have our initial work this evening. The question I was asking is how much insistance should I use to enforce the command if any at all if the need should arise. Darci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRhodes Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 You may be able to ask for a stop the first time out, just depends on the dog (and the sheep). Let him move around the sheep a time first and get out some of his energy, find balance, etc. When you ask for the stop make sure your sheep are not trying to move away, he'll certainly ignore it if he thinks they're escaping, ask for it at a natural point where he's probably already paused anyway and he'll be more comfortable in taking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, its pouring down rain right now, ( Im doing the happy dance for that !) So we may not get the opportunity tonight, which is OK, just more opportuinty for more great input and suggestions. Darci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbernard2424 Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Well, its pouring down rain right now, ( Im doing the happy dance for that !) So we may not get the opportunity tonight, which is OK, just more opportuinty for more great input and suggestions. Darci I expected you wouldn't be able to work last night, which is a good thing given the reason why [rain]. Darci, do you have appropriate sheep to start a puppy on? Last I knew, your sheep were pretty light. I had to buy well-broke sheep to work my young dogs on. They were expensive, but worth their weight in gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Darci, The first few times my pups were on stock, including at a clinic with Jack Knox, we weren't looking for a stop on command. (In fact, with one pup Jack started mixing things up a bit once the pup started anticipating being asked to stop.) If the pup so much as acknowledged what we were asking (and that acknowledgement might be as small as the twitch of an ear), then we considered that an acceptable response (s/he acknowledged that we were at least in the picutre). But when we really wanted to stop (that is, end the training session), we made sure that the pup was on balance and in a position where we could easily get between it and the sheep to prevent it from going back to work on its own once stopped. This is where dog broke puppy sheep are handy. If you can stop the sheep moving with the pup on balance, then the pup really has no other choice but to stop moving itself (or dive in and make things really fun ). At the earliest stages of training I am all for letting the pup *work* and not requiring a lot of obedience, as long as the pup is showing some sense and the sheep aren't being harassed/damaged. A light long line (parachute cord or the like) attached to the collar will ensure that you can stop the pup when all else isn't working (and will prevent you from getting into that nagging cycle that you mentioned).... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 If you can stop the sheep moving with the pup on balance, then the pup really has no other choice but to stop moving itself (or dive in and make things really fun ). Faith always chooses the latter option. Which is why I now know how to say "devil dog" in Italian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hey Michelle, Well, they aint knee knockers but they're pretty dogged right now. Yes, still doing the happy thank God its raining dance. Better late than never I say. Most all night last night, pour downs to light sprinkles, and on and off again most all day today. I aint complaining. Cept it has kept me off the field. Where did you find yer sheep? Ive been asking around for a while now, and with at least 3 maybe 4, pups to get started,( still have one of Lexy's pups) I really feel like it would be worth it to get the knee knockers too. ................Julie, thats about what I thought too, but the old OB trainer in me says obedience must be achieved. Its hard to stop myself, and its always good to hear that my instincts are pretty much on target. I think these sheep are pretty dogged, but still, Id feel better with some puppy sheep. I just cant let these pups sit around any longer and need to get at least some rudimentary work done with them. Still raining, so havent gotten out tonight except to feed stock, and ha! Funny when its raining to say water them. Even though theres still some grass on the pasture, its slick, and one broke tail bone in a life time is all I care to experience, so no work tonight either. Sure wish Jack would come a litter closer this way. Id like to attend a clinic of his. I did contact Robin, and am going out there to visit in a few weeks. Thanks everyone for your helpful reccomendations and advise. We'll get these pups started in the right direction. Darci PS. Michelle, heres one of Blew I took a couple of weeks ago. I know you hadnt seen him since he was small. Ears are pricked, but he was playing with the water, so he's all wet and they are down at the moment. Nose is finally almost all black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Darci, Becca Shouse usually has Jack out for a clinic in January. If I'm not mistaken, she's planning to have him back this year, so he will be fairly close! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Glad to hear that. Just ring the dinner bell, and I'll add that to my plate! Darci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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