maltese cross

[blackacre]

Hey y'all,

I need some dimensions for a Maltese Cross, specifically the width between the panels. 2 feet ? Or maybe 2 1/2 feet?

Next: the rules on how you execute--and point--the damned things. I get the handler having to pick a zone and not break the plane, but, do you have to complete it in one direction before you move on, or do you HAVE to move on once the sheep break the plane or is it dependant on number of sheep through or . . . ? And how do you point various calamitous failures to execute. This part I am an expert on--the failures, that is, and how to lose all your points and still be standing there with sheep rocketing around when time runs out.

Finally, I saw a pretty interesting one that involved, I think, only four panels, parallel, with a opening between them on either side for you and the dog to guard. Can anyone describe this?

A

[kelpiegirl]

A

We did this at a point/time trial recently. Here is what I saw/did. First, the handler was able to be on one side of the panels, and *finally* get the sheep in. At this point where the handler was very important- the sheep stopped just before the openings, and you want the sheep to not go out through the openings, so many folks who were succesful had dogs that would stay off. The handler got to the end of the panels, and used whatever power possible (swing that stick) to keep them from bolting out. The dogs who didn't stay off forced the sheep out. Basically, it was, in my opinion, an exercise in control of the dog and pressure. Usually, once the sheep decided to forge ahead, most handlers, even if they tried, couldn't get them to take the side exit. We also did this where we didn't WANT them to take the side exit, and that was much easier- IF you had a dog that stayed off!

 

 

Hey y'all,

I need some dimensions for a Maltese Cross, specifically the width between the panels. 2 feet ? Or maybe 2 1/2 feet?

Next: the rules on how you execute--and point--the damned things. I get the handler having to pick a zone and not break the plane, but, do you have to complete it in one direction before you move on, or do you HAVE to move on once the sheep break the plane or is it dependant on number of sheep through or . . . ? And how do you point various calamitous failures to execute. This part I am an expert on--the failures, that is, and how to lose all your points and still be standing there with sheep rocketing around when time runs out.

Finally, I saw a pretty interesting one that involved, I think, only four panels, parallel, with a opening between them on either side for you and the dog to guard. Can anyone describe this?

A

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm pretty sure you can keep attempting one side until you succeed or time runs out.

 

I've done the open middled chute - both straight and with it set up in in an "L" shape - also fun. In both cases we were not allowed to break the opening, basically.

 

The cross seems to be about one sheep wide, about what you'd want if were setting up to worm or sort using a guillotine gate. If you are inflicting it on novices you might make it a bit wider, but honestly I think that a wider opening can just invite the sheep to take the right turn going through - ideally if you don't need to pressure them too much in, and not at all going through (to block those openings), they'll walk right in on the second pass.

 

The chutes I've done or seen were usually cattle trial leftovers and were set up pretty wide - two or three sheep wide. The openings were three or four feet about what you'd see for a walk gate.

 

For both of them the strategies and handling are similar to penning. I'd think you'd score similarly also - but I'd think you'd have to be kinder about failed attempts as you really have to let them settle and think if you hope to get them through. I've seen some judges give full points for any team that puts the sheep through smoothly whether they pause at the openings or inside, or waver at the holes, or turn wide on the cross, or not, while others will leave a point open at the top for a team that might walk them straight through both ways without hesitation, and a tight turn on the cross. But I'm not a judge, nor do I play one on TV. Interesting, I was at one trial where you had to do the straight chute from the post as part of last drive leg. I don't think that one was open anywhere though - that would be just wacky. It was also much wider.

 

Obviously the judges I've clerked for were more concerned about the work as a whole rather than taking a point off for a bobble here or there, more like as if it were a pen. Other judges might work it differently, I don't know.

 

My trial experience was in SC, NC, TN, GA, etc, from 5 to 9 years ago so I'm sure you'll get lots of other approaches. It's my impression that these types of obstacles don't carry any particular expectations, being just something the trial director can get imaginative on.

 

ETA: Really, really, really important - make sure everyone setting up the course gives some thought as to where the draws might be that day because just a small difference can make the difference between a reasonable challenge and an obstacle no one at all can succeed at or even come close! I've been at trials where they set up a cross or chute up on a whim and then had to give three or four reruns after re-thinking where they set it up, lol. Definitely not anyone's fault, really - it's incredibly hard to predict these things!

[KathyF]

I just ran at a trial a couple of weeks ago where on the last day the judge chose to set up a Maltese cross. With this particular course and with this judge she awarded 10 points per leg of the cross. She chose the quadrant that you could stand in and you could not leave that quadrant. You either needed to get the sheep through the leg of the cross to continue on or if you broke the plane for that leg then you were to move onto the next leg. There were a few of us who got the first leg, but not the second one. Then there were even less who got both legs of the cross. I was at a trial a couple of years ago with a cross where you got to pick which quadrant you wanted to work from, but then you had to stay there. If my memory serves me correctly, I even ran at a trial once where you could pick one quadrant to work from for the first leg and then another quadrant for your second leg if you wanted to do that.

 

It seems that the width of the openings was basically a little wider than one sheep. The one from two weeks ago they used regular drive panels/gates to set up the sides of the cross.

 

The other thing that this judge set up for the course was that instead of a turn at the post, you needed to bring the sheep down the fetch and then between the handler's post and a sign that was set up a few feet in front of the post. I liked having the variety in this course.

 

Kathy

[Pearse]

Hey y'all,

I need some dimensions for a Maltese Cross, specifically the width between the panels. 2 feet ? Or maybe 2 1/2 feet?

Next: the rules on how you execute--and point--the damned things. I get the handler having to pick a zone and not break the plane, but, do you have to complete it in one direction before you move on, or do you HAVE to move on once the sheep break the plane or is it dependant on number of sheep through or . . . ? And how do you point various calamitous failures to execute. This part I am an expert on--the failures, that is, and how to lose all your points and still be standing there with sheep rocketing around when time runs out.

Finally, I saw a pretty interesting one that involved, I think, only four panels, parallel, with a opening between them on either side for you and the dog to guard. Can anyone describe this?

A

 

Hi Andrea,

 

I was Course Director du Jour for the trial Kathy Flynn was talking about. Legs of the maltese cross were 8' panels about 2.5' - 3' apart, so needed 8 panels.

 

The way we ran it was that if the sheep broke the plane coming off the 2nd drive panel you had to take them back and try again (the judge's rationale was that because of the draw, sheep stampeding past the MC did not constitute an attempt).

 

You could keep trying in one direction until your sheep broke the plane, then you had to move on. We did this primarily to save some time. I set the "plane" as the point where the panels intersected. A more experienced handler and judge later pointed out to me that this was not the best way to do it and that I would have been better to make the plane to be perpendicular to the end of the chute (rather than the middle) as this gave the team a better/fairer shot at making it as they would have 16' instead of 8' in which to work.

 

The judge pointed each leg /10 like a pen.

 

Like a pen, handler had to hold his/her side and stay in one quadrant. We were pretty loose on how far out in that quadrant they could come. Other trials make it like a pen with a 6' rope or length of a crook from the end of the chute.

 

It worked out pretty well and since this was the 3rd Open trial in three days, made for a bit of variety

 

Pearse

(having pancakes in Millersport OH on the way to Gettysburg)

[blackacre]

OK good. Good info, thanks all. That gives me something to work with.

A