Shutting down

[dinah_kay]

Right now we are in our summer break from agility due to the heat, and I know Riley and I need to put in some work! We are in a group agility class (we have through about 5 or 6 sets of 6 week classes.) Riley isn't your typical high drive bc. She is easy going, but VERY food motivated. We often have issues in class because she is watching me too closely if that makes any sense. As long as I work a bit ahead of her we are ok with that issue right now. The big problem is that she started shutting down during our last 6 weeks of class. For example I would have her in a sit stay with a jump a stride or so infront of her, I would say "Riley, jump" and she will just look at me and then look away. Then I would need to say it again to get her moving. Then it started happening more and more. Then came the sniffing. Somedays she would sniff the ground a ton which I took as a sign of stress, but my instructor said that they were all sniffing a lot. Then she started to run off course. For example if we had two jumps and then a turn to a tire she would jump the first jump then run around the second jump and go about 10 feet away and start sniffing or looking around (away from me and the group.) If we work a jump shoot with or with an A frame she will see the line and take it and a good speed with no issues. I have tried tugging, changing her treats, ect and am not getting much of a response. I do think a lot of it is our teacher pushing her too much. For example she wanted to work an "out" command (we had never done this before), so she had us do one jump and then just do the out command to a offset jump. I felt like my dog was really confused and then the shutting down started. I felt like we added too many things - tight turns, outs, too high of a teeter (I made sure to hold the teeter so it wouldn't drop on her and scare her), ect. After my dog's difficulties she realized she was pushing too much so for our last two classes we went back to more basics, which helped a bit. In fact we were able to run a mini course (no teeter or weaves) just fine.

 

So, can anyone give some suggestions? My teacher told me to use a target over a jump to get her driving over the jump, but I just don't feel like that will take care of the bigger issue of her shutting down through most of our class now. Hopefully the summer break will help, but what should I do to help prevent this and/or work through it?

 

Thanks for any help you can offer!!!!

[OurBoys]

How old is your dog? How many other bc's are in the class? How large is the class? Do you think she could be getting bored?

 

JJ was the only bc in his class so we had to do a lot of waiting and waiting is not his forte'. Is she ball oriented? Replace the treats with a catch of the ball as a reward. Each and every time you speak to her, speak to her in an excited, high-pitched voice.

 

Sorry, I couldn't be of more help. There are more experienced people than I on the boards. I'm sure they can give you better advice.

[dinah_kay]

How old is your dog? How many other bc's are in the class? How large is the class? Do you think she could be getting bored?

 

She will be two this August. There are only 4 dogs in our class right now, with one bc mix, a slow moving aussie, and a lab. I don't think she is getting bored, instead it feels like if she doesn't get it the first time she gets frustrated maybe? I really don't know, but I have got to fix it. I try to keep a happy voice, althought I will say that it gets tough sometimes when I can't get her to do a simple obstacle. She like tennis balls, but isn't really a high drive obsessive type. In fact she really can't catch a ball to save her life, lol. At home she will get into tugging sometimes but I really did get the same response at class. She does LOVE her hide a squirrels that have a squeaker in them, but I didn't want to do anything in class that will be rude/distracting to the other dogs. She gets really excited when I work her with a clicker (haven't tried it in agility) but it isn't something I can use in a group setting due to the other dogs. My other bc mix is so easy - he is frisbee crazy and love agility, but the group setting makes him crazy. Riley is really easy going with much less drive, but still at times seems to have a good time in agility, but seems to get frustrated easliy. I need to figure out how to manage her better.

 

Thanks!

[Rosanne]

Short sequences, lots of upbeat rewards.

 

Let her know when she's wrong, but gently and only if you are sure she knew what the cue meant in the first place. Let her know when she's right enthusiastically.

 

If your instructor pushes too much talk to them about it. If they aren't willing to adapt try finding a different instructor. There's quite a few around most places these days. (unless you're really really rural).

 

If she sniffs give her one recall command. If that doesn't work go and gently take the collar, go back to the beginning and try to get her attention and focus back. If the distraction/lack of motivation doesn't go away then put her away for a few minutes. When you try again try to initiate the feeling that your dog is playing with you. No matter how serious anyone is at agility (and I'm serious!) the dog should always view agility as fun. I expect my dogs to try to be correct for me, but at your stage of training you are just trying to get the dog to WANT to play agility with you. The rest will follow.

 

Also try some silly games near the ring while other people are running to engage your dog's play drive with you (get one of those toys or tubes you can put food in so you can play and then give treats right from the toy).

 

Don't go overboard with silly high pitched screeching. Don't "cheerlead". Give your dog clear, concise information and cues in a positive, upbeat voice. Then give your dog clear, concise feedback on how they performed. A high voice is fine, but chattering non-stop often makes dogs MORE confused as to what you want. And DO have a party after a couple obstacles, BEFORE she loses focus. If your instructor has a problem with this, then again, you need to look for a new one. Your goal will be to reward your dog while she is still working with you, and try to minimize the opportunity for her to get distracted and shut down. Yes, sniffing is definitely a stress behavior, BUT it's not the worst there is or the hardest to fix. Well-timed rewards and making it fun will help tremendously.

 

Working on sending to a single jump at home will help your dog learn to focus and play with you too. Start next to the jump with the food (toys ARE better) in your hand and have her do the jump. REWARD. Then back up one step and ask her to go forward away from you and do it, then come back for the reward. Once she gets that then another step back, etc...

If you don't have a jump, a broom between 2 chairs or stools works great!

[dinah_kay]

Working on sending to a single jump at home will help your dog learn to focus and play with you too. Start next to the jump with the food (toys ARE better) in your hand and have her do the jump. REWARD. Then back up one step and ask her to go forward away from you and do it, then come back for the reward. Once she gets that then another step back, etc...

If you don't have a jump, a broom between 2 chairs or stools works great!

 

 

Thanks Rosanne! Should I target a single jump at home? Also, what toys do you think are best toys if I want to use it in lue of treats? She likes toys with squeakers, and can sure tug at home- but I haven't gotten the same consistent response with a tug elsewhere. She is food motivated so maybe a toy that can hold treats? I really don't know.

 

Just so I am clear, I should stand next to the jump and send her over, then reward her. Then which way should I go - ahead or behind the jump as I work further away? I know I can get a good drive out of her if I have her jump to me, but I don't think that is what you are talking about.

 

Thanks!

[Rosanne]

Whatever toy she likes the best is fine. Tug with her at home, absolutely. She may eventually transfer it to new places. If she will catch a ball at class though you could use that too. I like to always bring my dogs back to me after they do anything because it really emphasizes the idea of them working with me, rather than just seeing Jump and Food in the equation. And my dogs almost always do USDAA Gambles so it certainly doesn't create dogs who won't leave when I tell them!

 

If you start close to the jump, and reward her for coming back to you, she will understand A: Going to the jump means play/food/with mom and also B: even if I leave mom to go to the jump, she lets me come back! And then we play!

 

If she's slow at first you can also make a recall game out of it; send her the small distance to the jump, and as soon as she's jumping it run away back the other direction (you'd never move towards the jump) so when she comes back she has to come catch you! She will pick up on this and start going TO the jump faster as well, knowing that a fun chase game will follow.

 

This is actually how I start my puppies and make sending and jumping fun.

 

For your question: no, I didn't mean recalling over the jump like obedience, but rather sending her so she can learn to have some fun and motivate herself to go to the jump alone. In that context what I say above should make sense.

[Pat W.]

Knew we could count on you for great info Roseanne. I was going to say it sound like too much too fast and to talk to the trainer too. Your girl is still a baby in many aspects specially when it comes to agility. The only thing I would add is that you said you've done 5 or 6 sets of 6 week classes, if they were consecutive I might consider giving her a break from the training lay off for a session and work at home on little thing like the "out" command or tight turns around an upright, lead outs and startline stays. Make lots of fun games, you can work on targeting or hand touching or just silly tricks. I lay off both training and trialing during the hottest part of the summer. When I go back my boy is roaring to go and work.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I am NOT an agility person but I was struck by your comment that she's highly motivated by C/T - I wonder whether she is having problems working without the reinforcement? My Ben really likes to know when he's right and it even works for stock work. When he was about your dog's age he got discouraged easily if he didn't get that cue that he was right. I did agility, frisbee, and flyball with him and the work was never sufficient to make him understand that he'd "gotten it" - but if I gave him that cue his attitude changed 100%. And he wasn't C/T raised - it's just his nature.

 

I wonder whether it would help to charge a verbal marker and pair it with the toys. I use "That's it" which sort of sounds like the clicker but doesn't sound out of place in any situation.

 

OK, I'll get my oar out of here . . .