SoloRiver Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Fly and I are getting back onto the trial field for the first time in a long time this Sunday. The stock will be Boer goats. Part of the reason I entered is that we've never worked goats before, and I'm curious. So you see my problem -- we've never worked goats. What can I expect? Any pointers, or, erm, warnings? Fly is really kind to sheep, stays nice and off them and they tend to like her and move nicely for her, except range ewes who quickly figure out that she doesn't know what the word "grip" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I love working goats with Taz. I don't know what a trial with goats would be like, but I bet it would be pretty fun with Taz. As you probably know, goats don't flock as well as sheep, so working them helps Taz remember that he can't rely on working only the lead animal and he has to swing around to cover all of them, which ultimately helps keep him back and relaxed a bit more. In addition, he has a bad habit of only going as far as he thinks he needs to in order to cover when flanking before he wings back, thus relying on the sheep to turn once he sees that they see him. The goats don't cooperate that way--they take a few steps but then stop and eat or go back to where they were, so he has to actually watch them and go as far as necessary for each goat to truly go where we want them to--this is good for him, as it keeps him honest. He needs me to keep on him more than he does with sheep at first, but then he really seems to get into a groove with goats. I hate working goats with Craig. Craig is a trained dog, but he seems to think that goats are not worthy of being too bothered about. He'll work them, but he doesn't seem to mind leaving a few behind. I have only worked Craig on goats once, and decided to concentrate on sheep with him instead, since we're still trying to figure out how to work together period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I love working goats. 1. They don't flock 2. They don't move 3. They challenge a dog, sometimes by rearing 4. They will test a weak dog to no ends 5 They will chase a dog 6 They use their brain to outwit a dog such as jumping on a stump and perring down All of my dogs work goats but they have had to learn. Lucy (red dog) really loves the goats...she gets a gleam in her eye!! Some dog pretend they do not see goats at all no matter how hard you try to make them Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoe Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Oh, please get some pictures ( and write about it too! ) Your SO will take some won't he ?! I didn't know BCs worked goats - learn something new every day. Sorry to butt in on your serious thread but I love goats and can't help myself. I worked for a while on a small goat farm before moving onto a large sheep farm. The sheep were such an anti-climax after the goats ( but I learnt to love them too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well, if they challenge, rear, and chase then we may be in for some trouble because Fly is kind of a wuss. Her one big flaw, which I would never have seen if we had never tried to work range ewes, is that if sheep get tough with her -- not sour tough, but honest, sizing her up tough -- she is at a total loss. She is, in other words, what one might call a tad bit weak in certain situations. I hesitate to call her just plain weak, because she has been able to get the job done in some difficult situations but she doesn't have a grip in her and the sheep know it. Light, skittish, flighty sheep trust her and are willing to just kind of go along quietly doing whatever she wants, so on the lighter trial sheep back home she kicked total ass. Out here though, where the trials so often use range ewes, we've had problems. At Zamora, Fly went out, did the most gorgeous outrun anyone has ever seen, up, up up those enormous hills... got around behind her sheep... and nothing happened. The sheep were just like, "No thanks." And Fly said, "Um, please?" And the sheep were like, "Uh, whatever." And so Fly just crouched and stared at them, because along with being kind of wussy, she is also sometimes very, very sticky. Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens, heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Melanie, Give her a hiss (shhhh) and she will power up to the goats.....that seems to get my unsure dogs the umph to move the goats. When she gets to the top, give her some ssshhhhhh so she wont's stick and will power up. She might surprise you. I know when I worked Tess on cows, she stopped and looked at me as if to say "no way in hades" but I gave her the hiss and next thing I know, she flew up, head gripped a cow and works cows now. She has a grip command now too....it's "get the cow" I think Koko will be at that trial. She is Tess's daughter, a wee red bitch owned by Rochelle. I just ran Koko's daughter Lucy in a Nursery trial and she won!! She is awesome and a fun dog too boot. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Koko is the one I wanted to steal when she was a baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Yep, that is her....be sure to tell that to Rochelle. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Try to keep her moving and on her feet - normally you'd just let her take a line on the drive and that's fine, but you'll probably want to do a bit more handling for her in this case. Watch plenty of runs before you. I know you would, but watch for the dogs that handle the goats better than others and what they are doing. You can use tiny little flanks to keep her from locking in her eye and causing a faceoff, particularly on the drive, and especially if these goats are used in training. If they are fresh, just watch that she doesn't get sucked into eyeballing one troublemaker and keeps the group together. You will most likely have to watch each goat for her, for at least part of your run, until (if) she catches on that setting her eye on the leader won't necessarily stop the others from pursuing an agenda of their own. If one breaks off, it's better to let things settle on their own, if possible, or take the one to the group, than to try to force the group back to the one. Unlike sheep, it's just as likely that one will draw the group, as the group drawing the one. Or they may simply just go their seperate ways - or both bolt back to you. At the pen, goats used for training may be hard to peel off you and into the pen, unless they are very trial wise, in which case you'll be racing them to get the gate open in time. Fresh goats will require a lot of teamwork to get into position and patience to allow them to choose to walk in. In either case they will almost for sure be more likely to overrun your dog, than you, so be careful not to push them over your dog. Boers are the most "sheeplike" of the goats I've ever worked, they group and follow well and are much more humble (well, the kids and nannies are). But they are still goats. A lot depends on how they are normally handled so again it's important to watch the runs before you and try to figure out what makes them tick. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pax Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 They are evil incarnate and taste good with hot sauce and drunken beans ala Celia. Other than that, I got nothing for you but wishes for good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbernard2424 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Fly and I are getting back onto the trial field for the first time in a long time this Sunday. The stock will be Boer goats. Part of the reason I entered is that we've never worked goats before, and I'm curious I'm jealous! Wish there were trials around here that used goats. I love working goats and in fact, have started three dogs now on goats. When we take the goats out ... it's a party! Unlike taking the sheep out when they act like they are going to slaughter. They really teach a dog to think and cover. Michelle and Gel and Midge who love working goats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Goats work the same as sheep except they don't flow through corners and turns. They sort of jerk...that is they are going one way, then whoops, they are going another. If you work a dog on goats a long time he will have a little learning to do to readapt to the flowing movement of sheep. Not undoable, just a learning curve. (pun quite intended, but appropriate) There are heavy goats, light goats, aggressive goats, wild goats, stupid pet goats, etc...just like sheep. The same rules of stockmanship and good work apply. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I love working younger Boer goats - they are loads of fun and seem to move very well off the dog. But I've had bad experiences with older, dairy-cross, dog-wise goats that are very clever - running and playing hide-and-seek around the pen, plastering themselves in corners and along the fence so tight the dog couldn't get them off, and challenging the dog. I hope you get the young stock as I think they are just great. The one trial we ran in Novice and they chose an older, clever wether and a couple of Boer kids, it was a disaster for all who ran - the person who won happened to get three kids. Her dog was nice, but they certainly had the luck of the draw! Best wishes and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Melanie So how did it go? Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Melanie So how did it go? Diane I'm not Melanie, but I will brag for her and Fly, as I was there. They had a very good go and they did great! Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell. My sentiments EXACTLY!!! Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 No, they really do. Wiki Sheep and Goats Parable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbernard2424 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell. Bill, you just need a good sense of humor to work goats. Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 We liked the goats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell. By Cake! Song about goats and sheep My husband put this on the lastest "mix CD" he made me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Goats are supposed to taste good, aren't they? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Pit barbeque. Tastes like chicken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Tastes like goat, if you ask me! As long as they're burning in a pit of fire, goats are fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Paula, Another passage from Cake that gets lodged in my head from time to time: Aging black leather and hospital bills and tattoo removal and dozens of pills Your liver pays dearly now For youthful magic moments But rock on completely With some brand new components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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