"I don't want to" *moved from the other board*

[Bekah]

*So sorry! I posted this on the wrong board last night! I didn't mean to, I'm sorry.

Hopefully it's in the right place now.*

 

 

Hi, I'm a new poster, but I have been a lurker for a while.

But I have a question and I was hoping you smart! people could help me out?

 

I'm working with this dog, she's about six now and has had very little consistent work. Once upon a time she used to do as she was told, but no one's worked with her in so long that she doesn't any more.

But now I have a problem, because she only does it if she feels like it. It takes me about 3 minutes of coaxing to get her to sit down. I *know* she knows it, she hasn't forgotten. And once I get her going, she's really good! She'll sit until I give her the release, and if I get right down in her face so she's looking me in the eye, she'll sit right away (which is another thing, she will never look at me! She won't follow a toy to my face, she won't acknowledge I've spoken, I have to get right down in *her* face before she'll look at me)

 

So anyway, I figured it would just be a matter of getting her back into the habit of doing what she's told. So when she does finally sit, I praise her a lot, and throw her ball for her, all of which she loves. So I thought if I was consistent enough that she'd pick up again that sitting when told= nice things. But it's been weeks now and I'm beginning to get frustrated. I'm still standing there saying 'Sit. Sit. Sit. Flick...Sit. Sit. Sit.' for a few minutes, and often resorting to tapping her hips to remind her that I'm not just white noise. How can I make 'sit' fun? How do I get her to want to do it? She likes to please me, and she likes to be loved up and petted, but it's like in her mind, sitting down isn't worth it! Now I'm worried that I'm going to get frustrated and I know that won't help her at all!

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

[Kat's Dogs]

first off - don't repeat the command! Ever!

You say Sit once, and if she doesn't sit do one of to things 1) if you are still in learning mode, lure with a treat/toy, or just wait or do whatever you did to train the command in the first place 2) if you are sure she knows it, a correction - by correction I do NOT mean to start rolling your dog or jerking her around by the leash or anything, just use your hand a gently place her in a sit. Then lots of praise. That is a gentle correction.

 

I would go back to the learning mode first. With you only saying Sit once. Then lure with a treat or whatever you do. Then you should see improvement, once she is getting the "you listen the FIRST time" you can go to using a correction. In one training session, the corrections should escalate the more times she doesn't sit. Not a lot! But a little. Then for each new training session you would go back to little tiny corrections.

 

If she just won't sit, abort. Say "no", then your release word, and go do something else for awhile and come back later to try again.

 

About not looking at you - that could be a BIG problem, but then again it might not be much of anything. If your dog will absolutely NOT look at you, I wouldn't really suggest you even do what I said earlier. Are there any other behaviors ("bad" ones) you didn't mention going on?

[Bekah]

Um... Not really any other bad behavior. Her recall is really good, and she likes to come see me. If I get down to her level she'll look at me, and even lick my face and everything, she just doesn't like to look up at me. I've known her since she was 2 and there's been no abuse or anything like that since then, but I'm really not sure if something went on before that.

She's a good dog.

[ClickMeBC]

As usual, Kat's correct - repeating the command is probably the worst thing you could possibly do in order to put meaning into the word. In a sense, you're completely desensitizing her to the word "sit" by saying it over and over, as by repeating it so many times and not following up it crumbles into the vast jumble of words of ours that dogs don't understand in the first place. It means nothing if you just say it.

 

By asking her to "sit" once and then either luring or shaping her into the behavior and rewarding, you're "charging" the word sit. That's why, until my dogs have obtained a reliable recall, they aren't allowed off a long line as I would not be able to reinforce my recall word if they were to ignore me and therefore taking away very important meaning from that word, bit by bit. In short - Always Reinforce your Commands. As Kat explained, if she doesn't respond, lure or shape her into the asked-for postition and then reward. Repeat several times each session and simply do not repeat "sit" just because she doesn't respond the first time.

[HighDesertSpice]

*So sorry! I posted this on the wrong board last night! I didn't mean to, I'm sorry.

Hopefully it's in the right place now.*

Hi, I'm a new poster, but I have been a lurker for a while.

But I have a question and I was hoping you smart! people could help me out?

 

I'm working with this dog, she's about six now and has had very little consistent work. Once upon a time she used to do as she was told, but no one's worked with her in so long that she doesn't any more.

But now I have a problem, because she only does it if she feels like it. It takes me about 3 minutes of coaxing to get her to sit down. I *know* she knows it, she hasn't forgotten. And once I get her going, she's really good! She'll sit until I give her the release, and if I get right down in her face so she's looking me in the eye, she'll sit right away (which is another thing, she will never look at me! She won't follow a toy to my face, she won't acknowledge I've spoken, I have to get right down in *her* face before she'll look at me)

 

So anyway, I figured it would just be a matter of getting her back into the habit of doing what she's told. So when she does finally sit, I praise her a lot, and throw her ball for her, all of which she loves. So I thought if I was consistent enough that she'd pick up again that sitting when told= nice things. But it's been weeks now and I'm beginning to get frustrated. I'm still standing there saying 'Sit. Sit. Sit. Flick...Sit. Sit. Sit.' for a few minutes, and often resorting to tapping her hips to remind her that I'm not just white noise. How can I make 'sit' fun? How do I get her to want to do it? She likes to please me, and she likes to be loved up and petted, but it's like in her mind, sitting down isn't worth it! Now I'm worried that I'm going to get frustrated and I know that won't help her at all!

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

'Just offering this from recent experience. (I'm no expert.) My bc mix would not sit either--but she would recall, down, stay, look at me, find it, et al. I mean she would not sit. Then i noticed that she hitches her hind....we got an xray done, and she has mod dysplacia in one hip. Not sure but myself and a BC trainer we hired for obedience training, are wondering if the hip was the issue.

[HighDesertSpice]

*So sorry! I posted this on the wrong board last night! I didn't mean to, I'm sorry.

Hopefully it's in the right place now.*

Hi, I'm a new poster, but I have been a lurker for a while.

But I have a question and I was hoping you smart! people could help me out?

 

I'm working with this dog, she's about six now and has had very little consistent work. Once upon a time she used to do as she was told, but no one's worked with her in so long that she doesn't any more.

But now I have a problem, because she only does it if she feels like it. It takes me about 3 minutes of coaxing to get her to sit down. I *know* she knows it, she hasn't forgotten. And once I get her going, she's really good! She'll sit until I give her the release, and if I get right down in her face so she's looking me in the eye, she'll sit right away (which is another thing, she will never look at me! She won't follow a toy to my face, she won't acknowledge I've spoken, I have to get right down in *her* face before she'll look at me)

 

So anyway, I figured it would just be a matter of getting her back into the habit of doing what she's told. So when she does finally sit, I praise her a lot, and throw her ball for her, all of which she loves. So I thought if I was consistent enough that she'd pick up again that sitting when told= nice things. But it's been weeks now and I'm beginning to get frustrated. I'm still standing there saying 'Sit. Sit. Sit. Flick...Sit. Sit. Sit.' for a few minutes, and often resorting to tapping her hips to remind her that I'm not just white noise. How can I make 'sit' fun? How do I get her to want to do it? She likes to please me, and she likes to be loved up and petted, but it's like in her mind, sitting down isn't worth it! Now I'm worried that I'm going to get frustrated and I know that won't help her at all!

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

I'm no expert again. Here's how I taught my little nonsitter to look at me. Following Patricia McConnell's advice I think: Offer really nice treat (string cheese, meat--the good stuff) say her name and reward, click. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Eventually just click and reward. Now, I make the click noise or say her name and she gets verbal rewards. All trips to the fun zones, start with a down stay or a sit stay which in turn must be accompanied with a look at me. And I get looks with smiles because now she's anticipating the release BECAUSE during the same time period, I was also teaching her to come to me using the really good treats. I would run, she would chase, and then get a reward. Today i don't use the clicker or rewards...and on occasion I work with the long lead to add reinforcement to and tighten up the recalls.

[Kat's Dogs]

Another question - does she ever look up? For anything I mean (toys, food, butterflies, birds, etc). Really think about it.... Does she ever look up?

[Bekah]

Wow I didn't realize I was 'desensitizing' her! I should have, but I didn't think of it. Thank you guys for pointing it out to me, it seems obvious now

I read that idea to get her to look at me somewhere else too, but I'm having trouble finding something she likes enough that she'll follow to my face. I'll have to try 'the good stuff.'

 

I've never really watched to see if she looks up. When I think about I can see her standing, and she doesn't really raise her head like my other dog does, but she does look up to watch birds. She likes to stir up killdeere (or however you spell that)

I'll watch her now, and see. Do you think it's something in her back or neck?

[Kat's Dogs]

It would not be impossible that she does have an injury that makes it uncomfortable to look up. Not all injuries would make them cry out in pain - it could just be a sort of annoying thing or something? I don't know, but you could check by just feeling her neck/shoulders/back all over and putting a little pressure (is there a spot she doesn't like touched?) or just observe a little while. If she always backs up in order to look at you, or waits for things (toys, food, etc) to come down to her level there might actually be a medical problem.

 

Or it could be just a training thing of course. I like to look at all options, especially when medical might be an issue. (when my girl performed poorly at an agility trial, it turned out she had a bladder infection so she was probably tired and in pain while she ran that weekend.)

[bcnewe2]

first off - don't repeat the command! Ever!

You say Sit once, and if she doesn't sit do one of to things 1) if you are still in learning mode, lure with a treat/toy, or just wait or do whatever you did to train the command in the first place 2) if you are sure she knows it, a correction - by correction I do NOT mean to start rolling your dog or jerking her around by the leash or anything, just use your hand a gently place her in a sit. Then lots of praise. That is a gentle correction.

 

For some reason this post made me finally get the +R training. I think when I have said "jerk" the leash before I was meaning tug. I will now say, a slight tug instead. Like positive only for some reason irks me I think the word "jerk" irks the positive trainers.

 

I don't consider myself a positive only trainer but embrace lots of ways of getting though to the dog. I also don't consider myself a neg, only trainer either. But things seem clearer to me today on the positive side. I teach/shape behaviors (other than stock work) in the same manner as stated above. But a gentle leash correction is not out of my tool box. It sounds much better when I say tug rather than jerk.

 

It's hard to get meaning across over the internet.

 

Kristen

[Kat's Dogs]

It's hard to get meaning across over the internet.

You hit the nail on the head there.

 

I don't like it when I see people incorrectly use prong/choke collars (although if a prong - the safer kind - is used right, on the right dog I think they are great), I don't like seeing people hit there dogs or really hurt them physically, I also do not like positive only. How do you really say what kind of training you do in just words alone online? I haven't a clue.

 

I use leash corrections plenty, one trainer's way of putting it is a "pop" on the leash - because "jerking" made people drag their dogs around by the neck, "tugging" turned into dragging.....and the poor dog just didn't have a clue what to do.

[Bekah]

Yeah, it's hard to describe things over the internet

But thank you all for your help!! You guys are awesome, and guess what!! Yesterday she sat the first time I asked her!! I gushed over her so much, I'm sure she thought I was nuts.

I will have to keep an eye on this looking up issue, I hope there's nothing medically wrong. I don't think there is though, because she was throwing her ball around yesterday, and seemed fine.

 

Thank you all again for your advice and comments!!

[Catu]

For some reason this post made me finally get the +R training. I think when I have said "jerk" the leash before I was meaning tug. I will now say, a slight tug instead. Like positive only for some reason irks me I think the word "jerk" irks the positive trainers.

 

I don't consider myself a positive only trainer but embrace lots of ways of getting though to the dog. I also don't consider myself a neg, only trainer either. But things seem clearer to me today on the positive side. I teach/shape behaviors (other than stock work) in the same manner as stated above. But a gentle leash correction is not out of my tool box. It sounds much better when I say tug rather than jerk.

 

It's hard to get meaning across over the internet.

 

Kristen

 

Now I'm really feeling at home here.