overcoming aggression between 2 dogs

[shanni and kingsley]

i need some advice over here.

 

recently, kingsley and another dog (also a bc) in his agility class simply can't stand the sight of each other.

 

previously they had some starring incidents... but we managed to distract them. however, things has escalated to the point that either dog will going into a barking frenzy when they see each other... which we'd calm them down... however, things has gotten worse..and so much so that during agility runs, if either dog is around.. they'd get distracted and wanna go and fight each other... which happened once when kingsley was leashed along the fence when the other dog was off leash to do his run.

 

this can't go one cos if i do trial kingsley.. .. i need to ensure that both dogs aren't distracted by each other.

 

how can i correct his behaviour?

[MaggieDog]

Is the other dog's owner willing to work with you two outside of class? If not, I hate to say it, but it may be hard to fix the behavior.

 

Are both males intact? This could have a lot to do with their reactivity toward each other.

 

What have you been doing to this point?

[shanni and kingsley]

yes.. the owner of the other dog should be willing to work with me outside of class. i need to talk to her.

 

so far we have been distracting the dogs to focus on the handlers rather to have them notice each other. ... using their fave stuff.. either treats or toys.

 

the other dog, male is intact.. but kingsley's neutered.

[MaggieDog]

Well here's what I would do - set up a time to meet the other handler and dog outside somewhere where you can get as much distance as you need between each dog until they stop being anything more than mildly interested in the other dog. Work at this distance on basic attention and obedience exercises, reward heavily. Once both dogs are working well at that distance, move a bit closer, rinse and repeat the previous step. Over the course of several short meetings (i.e. 30 mins or less, shorter is probably better) you should be able to gradually decrease the distance between the dogs. If you could work together every day that would be ideal, as would not exposing the dogs to each other at distances closer than their comfort level (i.e. in class) in the meantime. Once the dogs are relatively close (20feet or so), start taking "parallel walks" - pick a point and walk toward it with the dogs and handlers maintaining the confort zone distance. Do this for as long as you'd like and decrease distance between the dogs gradually as you feel comfortable.

 

Bottom line: if you overstep the comfort zone and get a reaction, step back, reassess and increase your distance. Keep the reinforcement level high throughout, and gradually start asking for harder behaviors around the other dog.

 

Once you're able to have the dogs within a distance that you can maintain in class, return to class but start a bit further away than at your last training session outside. Gradually work closer and closer as before.

 

This goes as fast or as slow as each dog needs - for Maggie she can get from about 50ft down to 10ft or so in one session now that she knows the drill and we generally are parallel walking w/in about 6ft of the other dog by the end of the first or beginning of the second session.

[shanni and kingsley]

thanks maggie, i'll speak to the owner of the other dog to see if we can work something out.

 

any other suggestions to work around this if we are not able to fit the schedule to get the two dogs together other than during training sessions?

[MrSnappy]

any other suggestions to work around this if we are not able to fit the schedule to get the two dogs together other than during training sessions?

 

At the risk of annoying MaggieDog, I'm just going to ask - where's your "piss off, jerk" command? My dogs aren't allowed to be arses with other dogs like this. If they want to act like an ass, they'll learn pretty quick I can be a much bigger ass. I correct them for doing anything other than ignoring the other dog. Kingsley should know he best leave the other dog alone.

 

I get the R+ desensitization business and I know that it's really successful for generalized dog aggression. But I suspect that Kingsley's just being a butthead with respect to the other dog. Get on him for it and tell him to knock it off and leave it alone. He shouldn't be *allowed* to have staring contests with other dogs - his attention should be on you.

 

RDM

[shanni and kingsley]

i'm am a bit concerned as i have seen other dogs becoming really enemies after the wrong corrective method was employed.. like using water spray and stuff..

 

so i do appreciate the advice and want to nip it before it really gets worse!

 

RMD,

 

how tough is tough enough to tell him to knock it off? It's seems that sometimes he forgets that he was corrected just 3 sec after it.

 

sigh..

 

debate about R+ and other training methods here?

 

har har har har

[shanni and kingsley]

BTW.. this is NOT kingsley and his "friend"

 

 

(picture by CK)

[MaggieDog]

I can see where a correction might fit in, but it can have nasty side effects when mis-applied, hence my suggestion of gradual desensitization.

 

If a correction is used, I'd be timing it at the exact moment that the staring begins, not at the reaction itself - you want to catch him *thinking* about reacting, not in the brainless mode that he likely throws himself into during the reaction itself.

 

Is the B/W dog in the pic Kingsley?? If not, what exactly is it illustrating? The staring? If so, that's quite a tough look there - if it were my dog, I'd be calling her off and asking for some major obedience and attention work.

 

RDM - no annoyance here I actually considered suggesting some sort of interrupter and redirection earlier, but it's pretty darn hard to explain the exact timing online.

[shanni and kingsley]

maggie.. nonon.. not kingsley..i will never have him in a position like that.

 

it's just two random dogs that was caught eyeballing by my friend... just thought that it was an interesting picture to share..re: the staring. but maybe not relevant here. Sorry about it.

 

 

Ahh.. the correction is at when the staring starts.. and not the reaction. i think our timing was wrong.. hence we weren't getting any headway re: the distraction or attention getting.

 

it is so much clearer now.

[shanni and kingsley]

oh.. just to add.. the staring incidents occur like when the dogs are 100 feet apart. it's not up close even.

[MaggieDog]

Ah I totally understand the pic now lol - I was confused.

 

Another quick thought - do both dogs really like class? Are they both really hyped when the enter the building? You could also be dealing with some redirected energy from wanting to "play agility", in which case an interrupter/correction and redirection might be even more helpful. If the dogs are over excited about class, you could also spend time working on a calm entrance to the building, etc. - if they start ramping up, back to the car you go for a quick timeout and then try again; you might not get too far the first few times, but I bet the dogs will egt it pretty fast once they realize they can't get what they want by being jerks.

[bcnewe2]

At the risk of annoying MaggieDog, I'm just going to ask - where's your "piss off, jerk" command? My dogs aren't allowed to be arses with other dogs like this. If they want to act like an ass, they'll learn pretty quick I can be a much bigger ass. I correct them for doing anything other than ignoring the other dog. Kingsley should know he best leave the other dog alone.

 

My thinking exactly.

I'll add that I have a dog that was a better ass than me. I had him neutered thinking that would do it. It didn't. I've since learned why he was such as ass, he was very sick and his idea was to kill the dog that's giving him trouble before it hurt him. Nothing I did seemed to work. He's better now but his assyness is a learned behavior so I still have a few issues. I hate to say what worked for him. I have a rescue female who didn't know how to interact with other dogs. We live in a pack around here, no kennels. This rescue went up to him asking to play, her asking was a bit rude. Mick growled at her, she took it as the fight was on. By the time I got them apart (I was there the whole time but they were pretty locked up into the brawl) Mick had a new nose piercing and she wasn't hurt in anyway. Now when another pushy dog comes up to Mick he will bristle up but back off quickly, it was a lesson he took to heart or at least to nose!

I don't know what correction to suggest but no positive only training would have touched our issue. My rescue girl must have known what correction worked. I think I'd be (sorry positive folks) jerking him back and taking him outside to tell him what for when this situation comes up. But it would be hardly fair if the other dog was allowed to continue. I guess they do learn life is not fair so I'd still be working on my dog, but I'd sure be keeping the other dog away from my dog if I expected mine to act right.

 

Kristen