Will Border Collies jump over ElectroStop fence?

[fpbear]

I'm considering 4 foot tall ElectroStop fence from Premier1Supplies for our sheep. Border Collies are excellent jumpers. Do they typically jump over electrified fences or do they learn to stay away? I know that for a non-electric fence 4 foot tall would be way too easy to jump. This would be my first time with an electric fence. It would be energized with a 20B solar battery energizer package A. I am so curious to touch the fence to "try it out." Is the shock so painful that I shouldn't do it even out of curiousity (like spraying yourself with pepper spray) or is it not a big deal once you get used to the accidental brushes against the fence? I'm also concerned about fire hazard, although I heard the new electronics make it safe. We are in Southern California and the weeds get dry in August/September.

[Geoffrey]

I have a feeling a BC would jump that in a heartbeat (or faster).

[Bill Fosher]

Unsolicited advice: If you're still thinking about leaving your Border collie unsupervised and thinking that electric fence is a way to do that, you are still wrong. Perhaps even more than before. I have known dogs (and currently own one) that will disappear for days on end if they get zapped. So in addition to all the dangers listed in the other thread, you now have an additional one.

 

Electrostop is 42 inches (three feet six inches), not four feet. The only four foot electrified netting product on the market that I am aware of is Premier's new Permanet, which is available either 48 inches or 68(!) inches and is designed as a semi-permanent fence, rather than a temporary one.

 

First question: will Border collies jump it? Answer: Many will. Some will not. I've got a dog that can clear five foot fences, and I've seen dogs that can clear taller ones.

 

Second question: will they learn to stay away? Answer: Many will. Some will not. Once they learn to jump it, they will have no reason to stay away.

 

Third question: how painful is the shock? When your ground is dry, you might just barely notice it. If the ground is moist, it could set you down on your backside and let you know where all your fillings are in your teeth. Accidental contact with a hot electric fence will hurt a lot. Sometimes it leaves the same feeling behind in the muscles as if a major cramp has just gone away. There will come a time when you do get nailed. I wouldn't go looking for it.

 

Fourth question: Fire danger. If you create a situation where the fence can arc to the ground -- the hot wires close to a metal rod, or a conductor looped around so that it is very nearly in contact with one of the metal spikes that support the posts -- you will create a spark, and that spark could ignite fuel. But if properly installed and maintained, modern electric fence will not start fires.

[fpbear]

Thanks for the tips, I'm just trying to learn what is the best thing to do and open to all ideas right now. Though we'd still need to find some way to ensure that the dog stays in its own section of the yard where it cannot see the sheep.

 

I am thinking of separating the yard into sections: a circle of 150' eletrostop or permanet for managed grazing, and a smaller portion of the yard on top the the hill near the house where we can keep the Border Collie while we're not at home.

 

The challenge that I imagine is that the dog would like to jump over the fence from the top portion of the yard, even if it cannot see the sheep below the retaining wall through the heavy cover of bushes. Wouldn't the dog just "know" that the sheep are somewhere and try to go find them?

 

I watched a video where a Border Collie easily scaled an 8' smooth wall.

 

I am wondering how all of this separation is best managed while still giving the dog a little freedom to run around when we are not at home. That's why I was wondering if electric fence could be a solution. I would prefer not to have to tie up the dog at home, I like them to have excercise 24 hrs a day whenever they desire.

[Maralynn]

I like them to have excercise 24 hrs a day whenever they desire.

 

Why?

 

My advice would be to crate the pup inside the house when you are gone, and give it structured exercise and training when you are home. That way you know your dog will stay out of trouble. The alternative would be a fenced in yard on the oppostie side of the house from the sheep. But you'll need a decent fence and you still may have to deal with digging. They really don't need exercise 24 hrs/day.

[Bo Peep]

Here's a tip from someone that has been zapped by an electric fence. It really depends on how high the setting is. But we had friends that had a lot of break ins and had horses and it was set up there pretty high and all I can say is OUCH. I was off the ground about 2 feet. If it's Strong enough for horses and cattle and chubby me, just think what it would do to the dog. I'd keep the dog in a kennel or pen and get them used to the fence.

BTW and electric fence never really worked for my sheep. Sure kept me away though.

[fpbear]

I don't want to barbeque the dog so I am leaning toward the approach that Maralynn and Bo Peep mentioned: giving the dog less space to run free when unsupervised (in its own kennel or pen), and instead getting its structured excercise when we are at home. What do most Border Collies do when the owner is not at home? Our Dalmatian stretches out and bathes in the sun all day. I thought perhaps a Border Collie would run back and forth in the yard chasing butterflies and lizards.

[Guest pax]

Electric fence runs on an intermittent pulse. You can't really fry anything, but you do KNOW when you've touched it, there's quite a whammy.

 

It won't kill you, but it stings. Short, but youch. It's an all over jelly fish kind of sting.

 

Yes, your dog will jump over it, probably effortlessly. Nash did just that yesterday. I have exactly the same Premier net. He is 8 months.

 

My old Anatolian peed on it. ONCE. After that I couldn't get him near the fence line, not for love, not for food, not for nothing. Apparently a shock to the willy when least expected makes a big impact.

[Laura L]

My dogs are all in the house when I'm not home. Two of them have to be in crates, but the other 4 can be in or out of their crates.

 

I'm going to repeat what others have said, leaving your puppy unsupervised would be like leaving a 4 year old child unsupervised. Even if it doesn't go and harass your sheep it will find many other bad things to do on it's own. It's a lot easier to teach a puppy to behave from the get go, than to have to undo bad habits 6 months from now.

 

Laura

[Guest pax]

It's a lot easier to teach a puppy to behave from the get go, than to have to undo bad habits 6 months from now.

 

Laura

 

 

Word

[concrete]

I have some field fence with a hot wire across the top to keep the horses from working it down. My meter for my fence only goes up to 5500 volts so my fence carries something more than that. Last week the ram got his horns stuck in the field fence and while trying to get him out of the field fence (an excellent ground by the way) I hit the hot wire with the top of my head. While not as bad as getting shocked in the private bits and pieces it did feel as though a very big man had hit me in the head with a 2x4 and I did drop to my knees in shock. So if you do decide to touch your fence don't do it with the top of your head.

 

Kevin

 

P. S. The tin foil hat I was wearing at the time may have added to my discomfort.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

P. S. The tin foil hat I was wearing at the time may have added to my discomfort.

 

Possibly, but I bet you sent some interesting signals to the Man.

 

Let me add my encouragement to the voices in favor of keeping your pups restrained at this age when they are not supervised. Besides the potential of finding some pretty amazing ways to get in trouble, keep in mind that in a month or so, they'll start deciding what the most interesting thing in their lives will be. You want that to be YOU. Not butterflies, or squirrels, or birds. And most definitely not each other, which is the most likely result of leaving them out together in an unlimited way.

 

Raising two pups together is about four times the work because you've got to make absolutely sure that you are the most important thing to them, not each other. Last fall we had two pups here that were about four months apart and it was quite a challenge, even though one was my husband's and one was mine. I still had wallking duty during the day and I had to make sure their manners training stayed on track.

 

Good luck!