OCD behavior

[Loosey]

Hi,

I am glad I found this forum! My sister needs to rehome her 15-month-old border collie, and I am considering taking her. She is very sweet and seems to get along with my two border collies, but she spends a lot of her time on obsessive behaviors. She will chase shadows and water splashes and spends a lot of time just staring at the ground or floor. I am not sure what she is looking for or what she thinks she sees. I can interrupt her, but as soon as I am not directly engaging her, she is back at it. Is this something easily fixed, and if so how would I go about that? Or is there medication I can give her that would help, perhaps in conjunction with some sort of behavior modification? Could it be a temporary coping behavior she is doing while she gets used the changes of being in a new home with new people and new dogs? Would taking her sheep herding help?

[Laurae]

I don't know much about OCD behavior, but I think serious stockwork training could help this dog--at least when she is working. Not sure if it would help when she is off duty, but maybe others with more experience will chime in.

[gcv-border]

I do not have personal experience dealing with a dog with true OCD, but I think that OCD may be a catch-all term for a fixation behavior that may range from slightly annoying (a behavior quirk or pattern) to very serious.

 

The dog may just be bored and trying to find something to keep its interest. From what I have read, if a dog is both mentally and physically challenged, many of the OCD behaviors diminish. How much exercise and training does the dog currently experience? Or is it left to its own devices?

 

I am sure you will get much good advice from this forum, but also try to find a dog behaviorist to consult.

 

Best of Luck,

Jovi

[Loosey]

She plays with my other dogs and I've taken all of them hiking twice since she's been here. That is why I was wondering if herding sheep would help. I have a herding lesson tomorrow to see how she does.

[moabams]

I have a BC w/this type of OCD. He's a shadow chaser. It also started at 15 months and was exactly as you described, except Aspen would not only stare at the floor (with his head cocked slightly to the side) he'd then randomly pounce and 'yip' at it. He started w/real shadows but then progressed to imaginary ones. At first we could re-direct but eventually he didn't respond and didn't seem to know his own name even if you were sitting right in front of him. It was not due to boredom--he went on walks, my kids played with him, he went to multiple training classes each week (obedience, tricks, agility), and had training sessions at home as well. He actually got to the point that he stopped eating he was so obsessed w/his (imginary by this time) shadows. I mean he stopped eating everything. No dog food, no treats, no people food, nothing. On the rare occasions we could get him to eat he'd eat so fast he'd throw up on his way back to the shadows. He threw up so many times while we searched for answers that our commanding "outside" actually trained him to do this--he's 5 now and whenever he has to throw up (rarely now) he runs to the back door to be let out. He got down to 29 lbs (he's 39 now and still nice & lean) and would wobble when he walked and lean against our legs at classes to stay upright, but still he'd tirelessly chase shadows, pounce, and yip.

 

We went to several vets in an attempt to help him and finally (on the advice of our trainer) found one. We started with a B-12 shot weekly (also on the advice of our trainer--vet hadn't heard of this but didn't see any harm) and then put him on the lowest dose of fluoxetine (generic prozac). The B-12 was an instant appetite stimulant and he started eating again immediately. He still chased shadows, though, so the vet talked to another vet in their office with more experience in pharmacology who suggested adding clomipramine (generic Clomicalm), also at the lowest dose, and tapering up if needed. This combo worked for Aspen and he's never needed higher doses. He's still on both meds and probably will be his entire life. He'll still get excited over flashes of light (such as CD/DVD reflections) and still paces if he's nervous, confused, or unsure about something, but now he's easily re-directed and is otherwise doing great! (He also still gets B-12 shots, but we only give 1/4 dose monthly because it worked too well for his appetite. For awhile he wouldn't leave his food bowl, even right after having eaten--he'd just hover his paw over it as if he could magically make food appear. He still does this, but only right around normal mealtimes now). We tried to drop the B-12 altogether, but he went back to not eating so we're going to keep giving the tiny dose.

 

My vet believes Aspen has neurological damage (born that way, nothing happened to him that we know of and we've had him since he was 10 weeks old). His fur isn't as soft as it should be and his tongue is almost always out as well. Of course, any or none of this could end up applying to your sister's dog, but whatever happens there are things that can be done. Having gone through it I don't wish it on anyone, but even as odd as Aspen still is I wouldn't trade him for anything.

[Laurae]

Have you had your herding lesson yet?

[Laurae]

Double post

[Jo&Tex]

I have a very OCD shadow chasing dog. He was a puppy miller dog and was penned for the first 8 ms of his life. He is now 5 and lives a busy life working on a sheep farm. I really dont see a difference in his shadow chasing whether he is free to run all day or when he is tied up or penned. It's ingrained into his response to everything he does.

It does not harm him other than I have to limit him in extreme heat or cold. It is annoying to live with, but not something that has to be 'fixed'.

 

I work in human behaviour management with people who show a lot of similiar behaviours. They dont need to be cured either, just given the means to have a decent quality of life and protect them from harm.

[Loosey]

Wow, thank you moabams, for such a detailed and informative post! Your dog sounds a lot like this one--she will start pouncing and digging at the gremlins she sees. She can be redirected for now, but I guess there is no way to know how bad she will get. She is much better on the days that we hike, but she reverts completely back on the days we don't. It is very good to know there is medication to help her if it does get very bad, though. Do you mind my asking, about how much do Aspen's meds cost each month?

 

And thanks for your perspective, too, Jo&Tex. I don't think this dog has been doing this for all that long, so I am hoping her responses are not yet so ingrained into her personality that she will always do this. As you said, it is annoying, and it just seems unhealthy.

 

Laurae, I will take her to be evaluated for herding this afternoon.

 

Thanks all.

[moabams]

Loosey, ask anything you like. Aspen's story has been told many, many times as he still takes a lot of classes to keep him busy and he goes to a lot of demos (including the county fair!) and our trainer always politely asks if I mind if she tells people a little about Aspen. Of course I don't, which she knows, so it's an oft-repeated saga!

 

I get the fluoxetine from a local pharmacy. It's now part of the government's 300 Rxs for $4 for 30 capsules or $10 for 90. Boy am I glad of that because prior to this program I had to pay $87/month! I get the clomipramine from drsfostersmith.com and only pay $16.20 for 90 capsules. Since Aspen's on the lowest dose of both (1 capsule each med per day) it only costs $8.74 month to keep him functioning. Sorry, I don't remember how much the B-12 is, but it's not very much and we use so little of it that I don't think it even matters.

 

I work in human behaviour management with people who show a lot of similiar behaviours. They dont need to be cured either, just given the means to have a decent quality of life and protect them from harm.

 

You're right. Aspen actually isn't "cured" and he doesn't need to be--I don't even think there is a cure. His meds enable him to have a decent life--w/o them he'd be dead as dogs that don't eat can't survive. My mom was a nurse in a psych ward for awhile and when Aspen starts his pacing she says he looks exactly like the patients she used to work with.

[nancyp]

Ill be intersted in hearing about this , I have one who is a water nut...

[Jo&Tex]

My boy went thru a stretch where he would stare at the shadow of the food bowl on the floor instead of eating the food. He's food aggressive too, so of course, the shadow was after his food.

Last fall, he developed a habitof circling a haybale in the field endlessly. It never stops...you solve one puzzle and he finds another.

My boy is also deaf but thats a breeze compared to the shadow chasing.

 

I wouldnt hesitate to medicate a dog if I thought it could enhance the quality of it's life.

[Loosey]

Well, we had a lesson, and she did pretty well. I guess we'll just take things one day at a time for now and continue lessons to see if that helps her. It is good to know we have options if it turns out she would benefit from meds in the future. Sounds like it wouldn't break the bank to treat, and I'll talk to my vet about that if we decide to go that route.