driving

[hillfarm]

Hi, I am hoping you guys can help me with how to start teaching your dog to drive the sheep away from you.

 

My two older dogs are very good on everything but I am just starting to teach them to drive and am a little confused at how it should be done.

 

My dogs know all the commands and can now bring the sheep to me from clear across the 20 acre pasture in a controlled manner. THey down when I ask, flank both ways, hold them at the gates etc. Now they just need to learn to drive.

 

I started my best dog the other day using the technique shown in the video starting your dogs on cattle, sheep and ducks. It was difficult as the dog did not at first want to move forward, finally got him doing that, checking him with the long line before he could try for the balance point, then asking him to walk up, it took a few tries but he finally decided I wasn't completely nuts and started trying his best to do what i asked. Unfortunately the sheep are pretty well knee huggers by now and kept wanting to circle back to me. Since I can't seem to find more sheep to start fresh with, how do I work with what I have?

 

ANy help would be greatly appreciated. I thought about putting in a long alley and trying it that way to keep the sheep from trying to get back to me, think this would work?

 

Let me know.

 

Lisa

[stockdogranch]

Hi. I'm not sure which video you're talking about, and what method it uses, but maybe something here can be of some help. Have you worked with your dogs on walking up off balance--that is, with the dogs walking up to the sheep without that being in your direction or toward you? So, like if the sheep are going through a gate, you are off to the side and the dogs are walking straight up behind the sheep to put them through the gate. This is a really important first step--getting the dog to understand that walk up does not necessarily mean toward you (which of course, it does in the beginning with all that balancing and fetching). If they are doing this already, great. If not, it's easy to do if the sheep are already headed to a place they want to go--like into their pen for the night or to feed or whatever. You stand to the side and have the dog walk up--basically follow them on in through the gate. Do this until the dog really gets just plain walking up to the sheep, no matter where you are. OK, so at this point, the dog understands that walk up means to walk directly to the sheep from wherever they are--not to you. Once the dog is comfortable with this, then you can move on.

 

If you have sheep that are pretty dog broke and want to keep coming back to you, the easiest way to start is by standing directly behind the dog (maybe 5-6 feet behind it), and have the dog a little distance from the sheep, like maybe up to 20 yards or so. With the dog a distance away, it will be more inclined to walk directly to the sheep, and not to flank aorund to the head. Ask it to walk up. With you behind it, it has less inclination to try to go round to balance, because you are not in a position for the dog to really balance to--make sense? If you're next to the dog, to the dog it feels like an outrun, right? As soon as the dog takes a few steps straight to the sheep--lots of praise. You'll work in very short stretches at a time in the beginning. If the sheep start to drift to one side or the other, stop the dog, make the dog wait while you reposition yourself so you are now back directly behind the dog, and the dog is in a straight line with the sheep again, and start over. As the dog begins to get it, you'll be walking behind the dog, doing a lot of lateral movement while following the dog (I call it the drunken sailor thing), so that you are always directly behind the dog. If you get to one side or another while still behind the dog (make sense?), your body should influence the dog to begin to go toward balance--so you can use your lateral movement to keep things on the line you want.

 

I'm not sure if this is making any sense. There are tons of ways of teaching a dog to drive, and this is just one of them, but this works especially well with dogs that are really strong to go to balance, and with sheep that like coming to the person. The idea is that you never are really in a position for either of those things to occur. Think about what the dog knows and what it doesn't know, and look at things from the perspective of what makes sense to the dog.

 

Hope this can be of some use--I can picture what I mean, but I'm not sure that it comes through in words ,

Anna

[Zoe]

I can picture it. Sorry to butt in. Very interesting.

[stockdogranch]

I'm glad you can picture it--hard to know when when a person tends to ramble on like I do...

Anna

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Warning - novice alert - I've only personally started half a dozen dogs driving. But I've gotten some good tips over the years I'll share.

 

Sometimes it's easier to teach driving on a fence, with dog broke sheep, so the dog only has to cover the one side. Push them in the corner, then let them "escape" one way or another along the fence. Let the flow of the sheep pull your dog off balance, then gently try to stop him as the sheep drift down the fence (everybody will be to one side of you). Continue walking on the fenceline with the sheep and the dog to one side, allowing the dog to control the sheep. Don't overdo this - no more than a few steps at first if the dog doesn't get it right away.

 

If he doesn't want to flank/stop off balance, work on that first. Have him fetch the sheep to you, let them drift past, turn around so you are facing the sheep, then flank him to one side, stop, flank the other way, ask for a few steps into the sheep, etc. The point is to get him really relaxed and comfortable going and stopping where you ask, while still thinking about the sheep and controlling them. He will be flanking behind you at first - this is the time to make sure he's not pushing the sheep when he flanks. Then eventually you should be able to step back, as he gets comfortable controlling the sheep, and flank him in front of you - again, pay attention to his flanks or that will come back to bite you.

 

One last exercise, once he's sort of "getting it", again, have him fetch them, turn around again, then you and he pick a place and go there with the sheep. Instead of giving him flank commands this time, if the sheep go offline, you walk away from their heads and allow him to turn them back. It's best if you catch this as early as possible so it's easier to catch him if he overflanks. First correct the overflank with a stop, then just call his name and see whether he knows what he's doing wrong, and then one hopes it would become largely unecessary.

 

Stop, allow the sheep to settle, then send him around all the way to the heads. Wear the same way - only get on his case if he pushes or messes up his flanks. Stop, turn around, repeat the drive. Eventually you should be able to call him around behind you, too, to start the drive, and you should also eventually see him anticipate the need to correct the line all on his own (actually it usually happens rather quickly ) Again, you'll start with him behind you and gradually he'll build the confidence to "take" the sheep from you. Let him build the distance on his own.

 

Good luck!

[hillfarm]

Thanks so much for the advice, I remember now using the fence Idea when teaching my dogs flanking at the trainers makes it easier for them.

 

My sheep are very dog broke and will even follow me without the dogs so of course they are making it harder to drive them away. (I am currently shopping for new sheep).

 

Both my older dogs are very well trained on the flanks, downs, walk up, bring em etc. Now I just need to teach them to drive. Gates are no problem for the boys and they can even hold them in the pen on their own or out in the open if I chose to walk away, I just ask them to hold em and they can keep them in one spot until I ask them for a bring em again. So they are both very confident, I just wasn't sure how to get them to drive the sheep away from me never got that far with the trainer before we moved!

 

Sorry I took so long getting back to read your replies, haven't been in the house much with the weather getting better!