Joe Anne Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Ok, well I survived the anticipation of the day, and so did Phoenix. When we arrived at the farm, Phoenix was his usual little whackey self. Although I was pleased and somewhat suprised that his whackiness was almost entirely directed at all the other dogs, and not so much the people. I have been working with him with his people aggression, but not with dog aggression yet. Guess he was on overload, with all the new smells, dogs, people and of course the sheep. When I first walked him over to see the sheep, he stopped looked and immediately bounced back and forth and up and down barking and acting, well whackey! I had talked to Susan prior to our day about Phoenix and his aggressive attitudes, so she was ready for this boy. Her assistant Wink, called me over to talk and tell him about Phoenix, and then simply took him by the leash, and walked him around. I wasn't at all sure how Phoenix would take to a perfectly strange man, taking him and walking away from me and walking close to the other dogs and people. But... Wink was very stern but respectful with him and it took exactly 4 min. for Phoenix to settle in with him, and he was actually leaning on Wink, while he petted him and talked to all the crowd. :)Amazing!!! So, I can say, that I can now breathe a sigh of relief, knowing that what I need to do is change my way of dealing/ training with my boy. I am relieved that I know I will be able to continue training be it herding, agility, flyball or whatever. As the day progressed, I disciplined him the way Wink and Susan instructed me to do, and I could see a major improvement. We still have a lot of work to do to get where I want us to be, but we are at least on the right path. I have been training dogs for basic obedience for years, but I have never had a dog as "wired" as Phoenix. Not even my 1st BC Wolf, was like Phoenix. He was definately wired like a BC, but he listened a lot quicker. I have always felt and believe that no matter how much you know, or think you know, you can ALWAYS, learn from others. The type of training I do for average family pets, works well for them, and as far as obedience (sit,down,stay,recall etc.) has worked well for Phoenix, BUT... I need to change my training methods to deal with this (very good normally, but), unacceptable behavior around stranger dogs or people. I stand humbled and ready to employ my new learned way of training my Phoenix boy. If nothing else, I owe it to him, so he can be all he can be!!! Anyway, then on the the actual intro to the sheep. Well Phoenix ended up being the 1st dog to go in the corral. He was real interested in all the smells and seemed to be concentrating on that more than the sheep, at first. Susan would point to the sheep and walk him closer to them and BAM...like a bolt of lightening, he did his thing...for only a minute or two, then back to sniffing and or looking for me. That went on and off like that for the duration of his first time in the corral. Then came round 2. He still was sniffing too much (at least to my untrained eye), but did seem to pay a bit more attention, but was still looking for me. Susan had me come in the corral for a few moments to see if he would concentrate on the sheep more and it did work when I took the line for a few minutes, then she had me "sneak" out, without Phoenix seeing me. He eventually seemed (again, I don't know what I was looking for), to pay more attention after that, and a couple of times got the sheep back together when they seperated. Susan said he did fine all 'n all. I am pleased with how he did, for his very first time ever. I knew before I even went that I would be bitten by the herding bug... so I am hoping to go on from here. I would love to keep training and hopefully some day down the road compete for fun. Actually, I don't know yet, til I can sit and talk to Wink or Susan, one on one how he really did. If he did show "potential"?, or not. My granddog Amica, did well too. Actually I think she did better overall with the sheep than Phoenix. Our breeder said that their Mom did better at herding than Dad did (he had both of them on his farm). Amica is a spitting image of Meg, their Mom and Phoenix looks & acts,like Buzz the Dad. He said Buzz was more, "hard headed", and tended to nip at the sheep more than Meg, which Phoenix did one time. So to sum up our day: I feel relieved and inspired about Phoenix's behavior. I feel excited and ready to gooooooo all the waaaaay, with his herding training if it is to be. I am very proud of both of Amica and Phoenix. I would love to see what the 2 of them would do together...does anyone think that is ever a possiblity??? Any feedback on what I have said here would be much appreciated, by this very green to sheepherding Mom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anne Posted April 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 PS... I forgot to mention, Phoenix seemed to pay alot of attention to Wink and Susans BC dogs during their demonstration of herding. He watched intently, lying down, standing up crouched, barking like he wanted to be with them. He also paid attention when any of the other BC's there were doing their thing in the corral, but didn't seem interested at all when the other breed dogs where in there. Is there anything to this, or is it just happenstance???? or my imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Originally posted by Joe Anne:Her assistant Wink, called me over to talk and tell him about Phoenix, It sounds like you had a great time! I just wanted to point out, though, that technically Wink is not Susan's assistant, more like her mentor. It's best not to compare Phoenix to other dogs there, at least not at the start. All dogs are individuals and start out on stock in their own way. All the sniffing was probably because Phoenix was feeling a little stressed by such a new and different situation. As he gains confidence that he can control/influence those big critters, the sniffing will stop. When are you planning to go back? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Joe Anne - I think both your dogs did great for a first experience with sheep. And I also think that Susan would very much enjoy your comment about Wink, her "assistant"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalyn Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 I thought Phoenix did great (Amica too), especially on his second turn He was interested in the sheep, I think he was just unsure of what to do, and maybe unsure of whether he was allowed to chase the sheep around. Tad did a lot of sniffing and looking around too. I know Tad thought he was probably going to get in trouble for lunging at/barking/chasing/gripping the sheep. Each time he charged around them he veered off and looked around at the people standing outside of the corral (I'm not sure if he felt guilty or proud XD). I think that once Phoenix and Tad figure out what they're supposed to do with the wooly things, they'll both excel. The first time Chili, my red and white BC, saw sheep, she ignored them completely. Upon further encouragement to do something with the sheep, she grabbed a stick, dropped it in front of the closest sheep's foot, and stared at it The second time I got her in with sheep, she ignored them for a few minutes, then finally got encouraged to chase them a bit (there were no sticks available this time). We took lessons for about a year and she and I learned a lot =) Sunday was the first time in about 3 years that she had worked sheep. I was so proud of her! She knew exactly what to do, even though I was confused and falling all over myself. My only regret for the day was that I didn't get a chance to come over and talk with you! Hopefully we'll get a chance to meet and chat sometime soon! -Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Jenny, Where did you get Chili? If you don't want to answer publicly, PM me. I'm curious about something.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalyn Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hi Julie, I got her from the Colorado Border Collie Rescue when she was about 18 months old. She was relinquished for nipping at the family's children's heels. The rescue thinks the family may have gotten her from a place in Ft. Collins (a "puppy mill") that bred especially for red border collies, but weren't sure. She's been such a great dog -Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Oh, well that blows that theory! (I was thinking she might be a littermate to my Twist. The littermate was R&W and went to someone up your way....) J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Anne Posted April 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Wow, big ooooops! I am sorry, I remember now that Wink mentored/taught Susan, he told me so! If he reads these boards, I humbly apologize . I am grateful to both for showing 'me' in particular how to best work with my boy to get this aggression issue under control. I liked what Wink said about his dogs not being particularly social, but that's ok because they are his dogs. Hmmm, I like that, and it makes me feel that even if Phoenix is not a social butterfly with everyone, that he can still train. Laurie and Jenny, thank you both for your positive comments. I really wasn't sure after leaving if Phoenix and Amica, did so-so, ok, good, not good at all, or whatever for their first time, I have no idea what to look for. It's good to hear other's first time stories, too. My daughter and I were watching Chili (who is quite beautiful), and told Amica and Phoenix to pay attention, cause that is what you are supposed to do! They did too! LOL Jenny, I wish we had each known who we were...???? does that make sense? anyway you know what I mean. I would have loved talking in person with you. I'm glad Laurie and I talked it was then she told me you and Tad were here too. I obviously remember seeing you, and watching Wink work with Tad, but I never put it together that ya'll were my BC board friends! It's good to put a face to the people here on the boards. I am sooo looking forward to meeting more of you in person, as my and Phoenix's herding life takes flight (I hope). Julie... I plan on going back as soon as I can get it set up to start lessons. All the way home the only thing that was going through my mind, was a song that says, "I'm sooo excited, and I just can't hide it.... I'm about to lose control, and I think I like it", over and over agian! that's the best way to describe our day! And to top it all off, we stopped at my daughter's place afterwards on our way home and one of my grandsons friends came in the house. Phoenix had never met this kid, and he didn't even bark, growl nothing! That was a first!, he actually acted "normal". I am still in shock........good shock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.