speed versus accuracy

[dolphin]

I was reading the discussion you were having regarding training your dog in agility. I thought I would throw my 2 cents in, dont know if it will help. I myself have a border collie I run in agility. I also teach agility classes. one of the things I do when training is let the dogs run as fast as they want, teach and train accuracy later. this is the dogs natural instinct. I have seen many of dogs at agility trials who slow down more then they have to, and take there time on certain obstacles. I believe these dogs do this becasue there conditioned to when training. I dont believe in that. My theory is speed first, accuracy later. It may take a little longer to get the obstacles down, but in the long run, you will have allot more successful dog in agility. I have a year and 10 month old dog, we are already competing in the elite level in Nadac..your going to hear people say that its easier to get your dog to speed up, then get the obstacles down, this isnt always true. If you condition your dog to go slow, to learn a certain obstacle, its first instinct will be to slow down, it can be harder to get them to go fast again. where as, if there trained to go as fast as they want, the obstacles and the footing will come.

[border_collie_crazy]

thats a differnt veiw lol every single agility class and seminar I have been to could not stress enugh that speed is that last thing you should think about. with happy however I think you method would work MUCH better, and I have noticed that dog trained to go slow continue to go slow and litterlly stop on the contact and wait for their handler, being I flyball person I find that odd and prefere the dogs go fast and not stop and wait cuz all I am gonna do is slow em down! lol

[dolphin]

You do see alot of people that train there dog slow first, speed later. There worried about the obstacles, and want to get them down as fast as they can. the fastest dogs I have seen competing, with the most success, are the ones who train speed first, accuracy later. These are border collies, there intelligent, they will get there footing down in time..It can be a little frustrating at first, but once they get the hang of it, and there footing and comfort level is good with the obstacles, you will see alot happier dog running in the agility ring. A happier dog, is a more successful dog. Remember, they love to run, not trot around the agility ring..

[Cynthia Blue]

Do you suggest this even for the contacts? Or do you encourage speed, and still put a target down at the end, so they will do a 2o2o? Or do you teach the running contact?

 

I am going to read up for my new BC pup... I want to train him as best I can!

[3crazybcs]

I have to agree that your philosophy of speed then accuracy is the total opposite of probably just about ever experienced agility trainer! There is no reason that you have to slow your dog down to teach accuracy. Have you every done any backchaining? You can absolutely teach accuracy and have speed if you backchain. How do you teach a proper contact, even a running one, without first teaching the dog what their "job" is on either the aframe, dog walk or teeter? The only obstacle that I could see teaching with speed in mind is the weave poles and even then it depends on which method you're using to teach. In my opinion, teaching accuracy and channeling a dog's drive go hand in hand. The speed comes later with confidence. To paraphrase Susan Garrett...teach desire, accuracy and then speed!

 

If your speed then accuracy method works for you great, but I'll bet you my fast and accurate dogs will have a much better Q rate!

[Rave]

Dolphin - Please give us examples of how you would train a few of the obstacles, so we can actually understand how you're doing it.

 

I think most of you probably do train the same way, but are misunderstanding the methods referred to here. If we had concrete examples of how some of us teach different things, we might be able to have a more useful discussion.

 

For example, since contacts were asked about, I'll tell you how I teach them and you guys can decide if it's speed or accuracy or both (I personally don't label it!)....

There are 2-3 components to teaching a dog the contact obstacle; Dogwalk & aframe are 1.) traversing the board and 2.) end behavior. Teeter has these two plus 3.) motion. I teach all components separately then add them all together. This is how I break it down for the DW:

 

1.) traversing board - dogwalk

hind end awareness, proprioception exercises

introduction to board - on and off, standing

"run the board" - gets the dog used to doing just that (note this board is just the top part of the dogwalk propped up about 1' off the ground)

different boards, different locations

 

2.) end behavior - 2on/2off

target training (nose touch)

target at end of stairs - backchaining - asking for speed AND accuracy

fading target

proofing (sending, crossing, running past, etc...)

different stairs

 

then put it all together, with speed and accuracy!

 

With everything, once the dog understands the performance from a standstill, movement is added, whenever movement is involved, speed is asked for. Part of proofing the behavior is asking for it at top speed.

 

Now, I know some trainers who teach the dogs to go slow, it's not necessarily asking for accuracy above speed, it's just bad training methods.

 

-Laura

[Cynthia Blue]

rtphokie thanks for posting your methods, very helpful! I look forward to hearing additional methods.