Roughhousing

[schrevolution]

Hi,I was looking for any advice on stopping roughhousing when a firm "No" and ignoring them does not work. I can't tell if Ziggy (10 months) is overstimulated or needs more exercise. Today we had a busy morning, visitng the vet to start his shots. After coming home and eating, it was time for his normal nap and then we went for a walk with some training involved so we were out for about thirty minutes. When we came back he went into super hyper mode, biting his leash and not able to sit calmly so I could remove it. Normally he sits automatically when we getting the leash put on or taken off. After I was able to get it off, he started his nipping bit, but telling him no only seemed to incite him more and turning my back to ignore him only ended with him going after my legs and biting hard, as well as jumping at my back to get my attention. I then left the room for a few minutes and came back and when I went to sit on the sofa he started again. I'm uncertain how to back him down once he's decided that he's going to use his teeth. Sometimes if I try to ignore him he will then go to the closest furniture he can and put his teeth on it, maybe because he knows I have to get him off and I usually have to tell him no, or give him his bone to try and stop him from doing this. Should I continue to ignore him if he does this furniture bit? I don't want him to think it's ok to chew on furniture, but I also don't want him to think that chewing on furniture is a good way to get my attention. Do puppies tend to throw tantrums when you start to tell them No? I'm just unsure how to proceed.

[Super-Levi]

My little guy talks back when I say "No you can't do that". Its kind of cute but I stay firm and as soon as his little fit is over I calmly praise him verbally and with a soft pat or stroke. If its something he shouldn't be chewing on then sometimes I'll roll a ball or offer a game of tug. I've also sprayed bitter apple on things he consistently want to put his mouth on and that seems to have helped a lot so far along with a variety of busy bones pig ears and greenies given to him at different times of the day. He is the first pup I've ever had that likes to chew on furnitare. He's only nine weeks and I've only been a border collie owner for the last two weeks so I can't really say if what I'm doing is correct in the long run or if Im in any position to try and help with advice but that's kind of an idea of how I've been handling my pup's desire to touch things he shouldn't. Prevention and redirection. Best success with Ziggy.

[GentleLake]

When I have a pup that throws a tantrum like that I give it a time out in it's crate for a while till it settles down.

[Marley Girl]

schrev... I'm really new here and I don't know if you should be taking advice from me, but you seem to be in desperate need of help, so I'll try! first, you said your pup is ten months and you started his shots today. Is he ten weeks or ten months? also, you said you took him for a walk and did some training for a half hour. Did you happen to give him any other exercise than a walk? My border collie needs a good run to unwind and wear him out, and even then he still wants to go, go, go because that's in his genes. I'll either have my son take him for a run while he rides his bike for 15 minutes or so, throw the ball or Frisbee and have him run that way, or even pull my son on his skateboard to wear her down. I would highly recommend vigorous exercise as opposed to a walk to help Ziggy unwind and feel good. He might just have all this energy bundled up without an outlet. Once you've run him hard, he'll be much more willing to take it easy for a while. These are just my thoughts, and I might be totally off base here, but it works for me. Good luck!

 

Kim

[schrevolution]

Super-Levi, yeah he's 10 months, he was just a rescue and there are no records to show whether he had any shots except rabies. Normally he will cool it after I've started ignoring him and move off to doing chores, etc and usually handing him something to chew on will keep him off the furniture but sometimes, like today, it's like any movement from me, even to turn my back on him becomes a game of how long can I bite on mom's leg before she pays attention to me. Although that bitter apple stuff might be worth a try, he discovered the power strip behind the sofa and I have to watch him double close to correct him about gnawing on that, yikes!

 

Gentlelake, that was my first instincts once he became out of control, I'll have to go back to doing that probably. I've realized he has certain times of the day that he will throw these tantrums (~1 pm or 7pm) but they aren't every day and the last few days he was doing very well. I guess there will be some ups and downs as he learns.

 

Marley girl, yeah I definitely think he needs some more run time. He was sick for a few weeks and couldn't do much but the vet has given the ok and I think we'll be hitting up the dog park again soon. He tends to wear himself out whenever we go. I've been looking into an agility club that we could join after he's done his obedience but that will be a ways away still, so I guess I'll have to make do as best I can.

[Shetlander]

Well, he could need more exercise. Are all restrictions finished now regarding what he can do and where he can be?

 

This is interesting to me because he is not a little puppy who can be easily picked up and plopped in a crate for this kind of over the top, bratty behavior. I would not turn my back on him if he was going to take advantage and bite me. Again, if he was 10 weeks old and bit me hard, I would probably grab him and say very mean things in a very ugly voice to him. That is what convinced Quinn to stop doing drive by nips on my legs when he was a wild puppy. But I would hesitate to do that with such a big dog. He might think you were agreeing to play and then escalate his behavior, or think he needed to tell you to back off and you could end up with a bad situation.

 

If I had a relatively new to me 10 month old doing what you describe, I would keep him on a leash in the house while I worked on manners. Just a 4 or 5 foot leash that he would drag and when he did things like bite or snap at me, I would mark the behavior I didn’t like with a word or sound, but otherwise say nothing, take his leash and put him in his crate without touching him and not talking to him. I would avoid putting my hands on him because dogs, especially goofy teenage dogs who never learned better, could take the hands on him as wrestling and then it is game on! I would leave him in the crate for 5 or 10 minutes and let him out to try again.

 

With the furniture chewing, I would probably tell him to stop twice before giving him the time out. I usually take a three strikes approach to instituting a time out unless it is for something really unacceptable. And putting teeth on me falls into the completely unacceptable category. I haven’t met Ziggy. He sounds like he simply doesn’t know better, that he missed out on some very basic socialization and manners training rather than being aggressive. Still that is behavior I would want to remove from his repertoire ASAP. Backchat is one thing and I have to work not to laugh at my pups if they do that. They learn it doesn’t get them what they want and stop. But the biting, snapping can escalate or he could do it with the wrong person and end up in real trouble. I’d institute a zero tolerance policy on it.

[Camden's Mom]

I'm with Shetlander on this one. Sure, mentally your boy is young and learning and new to your home, but physically he's not a little fluff ball. I just don't know if you can handle a ten month old dog the same way as a ten week old puppy.

 

I'm far from qualified or experienced enough to try to offer advice on the rowdy behavior once it starts BUT I noticed in one of your posts you have pinpointed times throughout the day that he routinely gets into these moods. Maybe you could be a bit pre-emptive and give him either 1) some down time in his crate or in a room or 2) a special, long lasting treat to chew on (antler, raw bone, bully stick). I'm wondering if you could "beat him to the punch" by distracting him as soon as it looks like he's getting amped up. It's just a thought, although if others think it's a bad idea I'd trust their judgement way over mine. Regardless, good luck with this, I hope you and Ziggy can work this out sooner rather then later!

[Gloria Atwater]

Crate time, structured training, crate time, appropriate toys, and don't be afraid to just give him a hard NO. Never ignore a bad behavior. He'll build on it. If he's going after furniture, either put him up or tell him a big NO, call him away and give him an appropriate toy.

He needs rules and structure, now - and lots of positive training and positive interactions. Teach him. Educate him. Spend time with him. Don't hesitate to set limits and use "No," along with the positive stuff.

And use the crate. Time him out if he's a brat. Give him appropriate toys when he just need to chew off some nervous energy.

Most of all, if you can find a good obedience class in your area that you feel comfortable with, look into it. But if you're not comfortable there, don't stick around.

[B Point]

Same age pup and similar behavior although his biting is not hard at all. Two responses I use are ... "get your hose"... his tug toy. Or, leash to the crate like Liz illustrated above. Redirecting to a game of tug always works but a time out let's him know he's gotten out of hand. Both work well for me..

[schrevolution]

Thanks for the replies, I'm going to keep implementing time outs and try to make things more structured for him. Hopefully this behavior will pass with time as we work on it. He was cleared about a week and a half ago and I waited a week before I took him out to the dog park again. We're going to go again tomorrow because I'm trying to get him a schedule going so hopefully regular run around time will help him level out a bit. I'll give it time so hopefully I'll be able to see him improve in this area. We don't start obedience until April, we were supposed to start a week ago but he was sick so it got pushed back while he recovered I can't wait to get him socializing more