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Selecting lambs for training


Tilly's Handler
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I have a 4 and a half month old boarder collie(Tilly) and looking ahead will need to have a group of training sheep. I have 4 bottle ewe lambs from this year I was thinking of keeping seperate from the main flock or would I be better off just selectong out some lambs from the main flock at a later date. I have Katahdins, Dorpers and some Cheviots

 

Dan

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I would not use bottle lambs. They don´t behave like "normal" sheep. Especially if hand fed they will come running to you the moment they see you. Not helpful for training.

Your dog is pretty young to start, so I would just postpone everything to that "later date" you mention.

Lambs/yearlings might not be the best option anyway, if you start a young dog the best thing is to have dog broke sheep, ideally not "over dogged"..

Is this your first time round training a stockdog?

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This is my first time trying to train a dog properly. We have always had collie type dogs we used for cattle. I sold all the cattle and got into sheep about 3 years ago and up until now have had less then 100 ewes but now numbers are getting bigger and thought that properly trained straight border collie was the way to go. I can already see the difference between the real deal and the mix breed dogs we had before was not planning on starting her yet but thought maybe having the lambs quiet to start with might help. I find once you mix bottle lambs in with the rest they are not as quiet and was trying to decide if I should keep them seperate till I was ready to start training Tilly I was not planning on starting her till she was 8 Months plus

I have been doing normal obediance with her Such as sit, lie down, leave it. heel, come when called. I take her with me when I am doing flock checks ect on leash she is very interested in chasing sheep but at this point in time would merely be a game of chase nothing more.

Sorry for the long winded explanation but I guess the point is she is the best dog I have ever owned and wanted to start with best training sheep. My older ewes and lambs have never been with a dog except once when a friend brought his cow dog over to show me her prowess with sheep and wound up being chased back to us. So I guess I need to find some one to dog break what I have or Buy some in Thanks for replying

Dan

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Definitely not bottle lambs, for the reasons Smalahundur says. Even regular lambs can be more difficult to work than ewes because lambs tend to be "leaderless," which makes their behavior much more unoredictable. If your ewes have been worked by dogs before, they would be your best bet.

 

If you have not started a youngster before, you should find a mentor to help you. There are some exceptional handlers in Ontario, and depending on where you are, you could find someone to help you get a good start on Tilly.

 

 

ETA: Amanda Milliken, who is the current expert in the "Ask an Expert" section, is from Ontario. You just missed the summer series of trials there, where you could have met a bunch of folks who are experienced at training sheepdogs.

 

Your instinct to use tamer sheep is a good one; it's just that bottle lambs don't behave like regular sheep in general. It would be worth buying some dog broke sheep to start her on. Once she's further along in her training, you could sell them again.

 

ETA2: If you know someone with a well trained dog, then you could take a small number of your ewe flock and have that person dog break them for you, but if you go that route you need to make sure that the dog doing the breaking works them properly and fairly. You don't want them to learn that a dog is bad news or an excuse to turn and fight, as that will be counterproductive for starting a pup. If possible, you should break 10 or so, so that you have enough to mix and match to tailor your "training flock" to your training needs. Dorpers tend to get heavier more quickly than katahdins, so if you're using some of each, you can adjust the "lightness" of the group by adjusting the number of dorpers vs. katahdins. <--This is a generalization, but it can be a helpful one.

 

J.

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I'll third the advice NOT to use bottle lambs. Bottle lambs end being pretty much desensitized to everything, and they don't behave like normal lambs. They'll be more interested in you than anything else, and they'll ignore and disrespect the dog, possibly even face off on her because they've been handled so much, and may not even care to flock well with the rest of the sheep.

In short, bottle lambs are not a good thing do to a young dog. From the sounds of things, you'd be best off taking a dozen nice lambs from the rest of your flock and finding someone with a quiet, well-trained, mature dog to get them dog-broke for you.

You've got a very young dog, there, and no matter how keen she is, you do not want to try pushing her too far, too fast. Wait until her body and mind are ready to keep up with what her instincts tell her to do. Her bones and joints are still growing at this age, and her mind is still very "puppy," not ready for the pressures of training. I'd wait until she is 10 months to a year before I began actual training. Since you've never trained a dog, you shouldn't risk putting her on sheep before that.

Last but not least, if you can find a trainer to help you get started, you'd be far better off. Green dog, un-dogged sheep and a newbie handler is not a place to be without help and supervision. Do post in the Ask An Expert section, since Amanda does live in your province. Perhaps she can help point you in the right direction.

Best of luck with your pup! :)

~ Gloria

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