Ways of Starting a young dog

[5Bordercollies]

Hi guys,

So from my thread about the training sticks you've probably gathered that my young bitch Jess tends to work a bit close and likes to grip whenever she feels a goat disrespecting her. So I was wondering about taking training from inside the kraal to outside coming inside. I know that sounds completely weird. What I'm thinking is this: The goats are being brought into the kraal every night to sleep there. The same kraal I have been using for training. So I was wondering if it would be less pressure on Jess if I took her - on leash at first- through the kraal (it has two gates, one on each side) to the side where the goats normally come in. Then open the gate, with dog still on leash, give the goats to a yells to start them bunching and then let Jess bring them in. While I off course try and back up without falling over my own feet. ;-) Maybe that way she can first gain some confidence before we go to the more advanced work.

This kraal is also divided in two in its breadth, so I was thinking of as a next step try and get her to then (off course when step 1 is being executed fluently) bring them through that gate, with the view of her later bringing them to me wherever I ask her to. For example into the kraal next door, or inside that kraal to the crush for dosing, etc.

Would that be a good or at least logical way to start a dog?

 

[bcnewe2]

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you are explaining...

Is this a new dog who's not been on sheep much?

[Gloria Atwater]

Are goats the only thing she has to work? Are you training her to work only goats or to also work sheep?

I personally do not care for goats as training animals for a young dog. In my experience, goats do not move off a dog well, they don't flock like sheep, they often separate, wander off, or just plain refuse to go with the others, and they will turn and face a young dog and stare at him, which can be damaging to the youngster's confidence.

I've never seen goats that don't require a dog to work close. If the dog works wide, the goats I've seen just did whatever they wanted and basically ignored the dog until it came in close and went, "HEY! Bozo! I'm making you move, now."

So, again: are goats the reason you have her, or can you find sheep to train her on?

~ Gloria

[Pam Wolf]

Dogs do need to work goats closer, yet feel for the stock is still feel for the stock. I'm not sure I understood the OP, but Gloria is right in the need to work closer to goats than sheep. And goats more often than sheep seem to need some application of teeth to educate them.

 

I LOVE training on goats as they present some nice challenges, but they are different from sheep.

 

Let the stock tell you if the dog is right or not

[5Bordercollies]

Thanks Guys, This is a two year old bitch I;m hoping to train mainly for myself (farm dog) and her main job will be the goats. We are one of the few farms around here who still have sheep. Because of the predator problems most farmers have gotten rid of their sheep, so buying some dogged sheep won't be an option. A few still have goats. And off course cattle. I have heard there are differences between goats and sheep, but never really understood until the sheep moved in. Our sheep is EXTREMELY flighty, Where they grew up on our other farm, anything that remotely looked like a dog was bad news, it was probably a jackal out to have you for his lunch.

I took Jess to the goats two or three times, but we recently took a few months off for some more off sheep training. Some basic manners got left behind. Also it was kidding time for the goats and to minimize stress I kept the dogs away. The Kids have now grown to the point where I feel comfortable putting a young dog on them.

Pam Thank You, I guess I will let the stock tell me.

[Gloria Atwater]

I should have said, I hate goats for training young dogs exclusively. They can be useful for some things, but unless goats are all one intends to work, I want to get a pup going on sheep, first.

~ Gloria

[Gloria Atwater]

Just saw your post, 5bordercollies! (Do sign a name, so we can address you correctly.)

If goats are what you have, then I agree with Pam. Let the livestock show you if she's right. Goats require a dog to work closer and sometimes they also require a nip to get them going. They do disrespect a dog sometimes, I've never moved goats when at least one didn't need a nip to keep it in the right place.

So, as Pam says, watch the goats and see what they say. If she's ramming right up their butts out of anxiety or excitement, then you may need to work on flanking exercises and step into her when she tries a cheap shot, give her a growl to let her know that's the wrong spot. But if she's correct and the goat needed a "spanking" to get him back where he belongs or to stop him staring at her, let her have it. Then make sure she gets back off and carries on correctly.

The thing I dislike about goats is that I've seen them used for young dogs where they actually rattled the dog's confidence. Because they do tend to face a dog or even make little runs at them, or else repeatedly break from the flock, I've seen young dogs get upset to where they would only come in if they could grab a bite and fly out again, or else refused to come on the goats at all. So be prepared to help her out and back her up, if you see goats giving her trouble. Make sure she doesn't start thinking that her bite is her only weapon. Back her up and help her learn quiet power, too.

So, maybe try that. Try flanking exercises and fetching exercises, and show her where she needs to be to hold the goats to you and move them along with you. If she comes in for an improper bite, step into her with a flag or stick and give a growl to warn her back out, then immediately back off your pressure and go back to fetching or flanking. Again as Pam said, let the goats show you if she's right, rather than worrying about what you think it should look like. She may have to work closer and faster than you think, in order to move the goats effectively.

Hope some of that helps, anyhow. Good luck!

~ Gloria