SKY Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 I have 2 border collies, a male 1 year old and a female 9 months old, I need some advice, I been letting them run loose,we live on a farm, 80 acres, but, a couple of weeks ago, they went a road over and the lady came and said she had my male dog over there, they had 2 female border collies, and now I am afraid to let them run loose, afraid they will go over there again. I especially don't want that to happen, plus if their dogs come in heat. That is what I am doing breeding. I had the shock collar on to break him from going across the road, but, not chasing cars, I need advice there too. I thought about a invisible fence, but, I afraid they will run right through it, and not come back. I need some advice. I have been to 14 weeks of obidence training,and when I do call him he lays down and pees.Thanks, Dianna dr_pepper62@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Hi, I don't mean this to sound bad but why are they out loose with no one watching them?? I too live on alot of land but wouldn't leave mine unattended, too many things can happen as you have found out, now that they know that they can go they will again! good luck! Tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ts Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Why are you letting the border collies run loose? Why are you using a shocking collar on them? Hopefully,I do not think many if any people on these boards are in favor of using shocking collars. If you have been shocking the dog to come to you when called, no wonder he lays down and pees in a submissive manner. Would you feel comfortable to come up to someone who had just zapped you? You mentioned that you were planning to breed them. Dare I ask if you are going to train first and at least prove their working ability prior to breeding them? If you think that you are going to make money by breeding the dogs, you may want to reconsider. People looking for a herding/working dog will want one out of proven working parents. Agility, obedience and fly ball potential owners will want dogs that have eyes and hips certified and that is not cheap. ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKY Posted February 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 I only used the shock collar to teach them it is bad to go on the road and it works fine, he goes in the down position till I return to him.I didn't mean I just let them run loose and never check on them, they are dogs and this type of dog loves to run, and they never seem to get tired. I have been through obidence training with my dogs and I plan to teach the pups the same thing. These dogs are my babies and I wouldn't do anything to hurt them or any other animal. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 I am with everyone else. A dog should not be left outside unattended. Either build a fence or an outside kennel. Your dogs need structured exercise not just freedom to run. I cannot give advice about how to stop a dog from crossing a street other than confinement and never letting your dog out unattended. Shocking the dog in order to stop it form crossing the street will only work when you are watching it. Once you turn your back, they will cross again. Once the neighbors dogs go into heat, you will not be able to keep your dogs on your property unless you build a kennel, run, or fence your property. Regarding breeding: Why would you want to breed a dog that has not proven a thing to anyone, especially herding ability? I do flyball and I am very careful about choosing a dog. Personally, I would not own another border collie and I only have a mix. I might be conned into rescuing one but would not buy from a breeder, especially a backyard breeder. If you decide to breed your dogs, make sure to do all the health testing and make sure to find homes for the pups before you breed your dogs. You sound like you will breed no matter what so at least be responsible about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rtphokie Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Have you ever scolded your dog when he came back to you for something he just did or used the shock collar when he didn't obey? He's laying down and peeing because he's afraid of you for some reason. Try to use positive, reward-based training. I've had friends with BC's use electric fences with success, but they don't work for all dogs. And they do not prevent an outside dog from coming in and will probably not work when those females a street over go into heat. Your dogs don't need to run, they need a job to do. Chasing cars can be stopped by simple obedience, if you're out there with them ON LEASH! Please try to learn something about dogs before going off and breeding them. How are you going to teach puppies obedience and manners if you can't teach adults?? If you can't understand basic obedience, how are you going to understand genetics? Do the breed a favor and nueter your dogs. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKY Posted February 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 If anyone came in the house my male dog would go at you and nip at your ankle till he breaks the skin. My husband will stand beside me and touch me and he is at his ankles. He had broke the skin and turned it black and blue. The same with my niece,just hugging me. When people come over they are both attacking at the cages with there teeth and moving the cage towards them,and barking all the time. I used a barker breaker that beeps when they bark, and they got to the point to keep barking and it keeps going off,I tried the shock collar, not saying I shock them all the time, there is a button that just beeps and it doesn't do nothing to them, and it works great. I would never do anything harmful to any of my animals. You don't know what it is like. The ups or mailman or schwan man can't come up on the deck and he is tied up and he goes after them mean. They have sit down on the ground and called the dog real nice and Fly will move real slowly towards them and once he stands up he at there ankle nipping at them. I can't have that. I know they are very protective animals.People might think I don't know nothing about dogs, a male and female having puppies together.There isn't no way that I would just let those puppies not be seen by a vet. and not get their shots,before I even get rid of a puppy, they will have all there shots and wormer and and papers and in the best of health. These are my life. All, I wanted to know if anyone knew any way I can get them to stop being so aggressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi, From what you are posting these dogs do not have a good enough temperment to even consider breeding (aside from the fact that they don't work),its not that you wouldn't take good care of puppies but how good do you think its going to look to hopeful buyers to have to lock the male away so he doesn't bite. you must have very nice delivery people(and husband), mine wouldn't put up with being bitten!! neutering the male would help with some of the prolbems. Tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkshas Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 My computer has been in the shop and they screwed up all my passwords. I'm just testing before I go to all the typing of a full answer to make sure this is working again. ------------------ Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkshas Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 OK we're in business. What you are saying is scary because you don't appear to have a handle on dogs and their behaviours. So, let's take this one step at a time. 1) 14 weeks obedience training. This is very little time. I have been working consistently with my dog for over 3 1/2 years and still feel we have much more we can learn. 2) Your dogs' agressive behaviour. They are pack animals and will try and be top of the pack. You must be top of the pack and to do this must have full control of your dogs not by fear but by respect. If they are attacking people then you need to be able to control them. If they don't obey into a drop stay on your voice command when someone is entering your property then you haven't done nearly enough obedience training with them. They are in control not you. 3) Breeding. I'll paraphrase from a book I have which I very much agree with. The only acceptable reason to breed dogs is to make better dogs, not more dogs. If your dogs are agressive then breeding them will not breed better dogs. I had my bitch desexed at 6 months. Unless you are breeding to improve the breed and are very knowledgable and responsible about it, then desexing your dogs is the right and responsible thing to do. 4) Letting your dogs run free. Sounds like they are running amock. Again this is an issue of responsible dog ownership. Your dogs need to be in a safe enclosed environment when unsupervised, and have a supervised run. I have incorporated road behaviour in my training. My dog will stop and sit at a kerb rather than running onto the road. If she is chasing a ball and looks like heading for the road a simple "uh!" stops her dead in her tracks. I can't emphasize enough the importance of obedience training. Sure in a few weeks your dog will sit and drop and come and all those basic things, but truly being the top dog and in full control in all situations takes much longer and much more work. 5) The control collar. These have recently begun to be used here. The RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) apparently took the issue to court and unfortunately lost. How would you like it if someone gave you an electric shock everytime you did something they didn't want you to? Now I wouldn't presume to tell you not to use it - that's your decision - but I personally am very averse to them. Good luck working with your dogs and I sincerely hope they don't get sciddled on the road. ------------------ Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rtphokie Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Dianna, You should really be consulting a professional trainer or behaviorist to help you work through your dogs' problems. You need to get control of the dogs you have before you even consider bringing more into the world. You should not be tolerating that behavior and obviously whatever methods you're using are not working. Get some help. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKY Posted February 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 I do not just open the door and let the dogs run loose and shut the door and go in the house and never check on them.Then say, oh, it has been 2 hours I wonder where the dogs are.They go out and run and play in the yard and field, and I go out and play with them, and do other things outside and then they run and then they are gone. All,I wanted to know if someone knew if the invisible fence would work, to keep them in it while they are outside with me. If not, if someone knew something else that work. I hate to see a poor dog shut up in a kennel and never gets out to run and play like a dog is suppose to do. I know someone who paid good money for dogs and that is where their dogs are. Shut up in a kennel and never gets to come out and play and run. I have also talk to other people and they have said the same thing, if their husband sits down beside them or gets to close, the dog gets up and pushes him out of the way and sits beside her. They are very protective of there master and home, and I feel Fly is doing the same thing with my husband. All, I wanted to know if others had the same problem and if so, what they did to stop it, beside having the man bond with the animal and I back off for awhile. My ups and schwan men are very nice and understanding. They get down and let the dog smell their hand and Fly lets them and they even rub his tummy, and when they get up and he goes at them again, they get down on their knees again and try it again. These are very smart animals and they learn fast.I love my 2 border collies and I would never harm them or any other animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 You may not want to lock your dogs up but you need to start taking control. Maybe once they can be trusted which can takes months or even years, you can allow them to have free run. Allowing the dogs to be protective is only making things worse. You need to stop the behavior and take control of your dogs. Training does not stop after 14 weeks, it is an ongoing process. I am not sure what to tell yo to do but you need to find a trainor. Have you though about organized dog sports? It is great exercise, great for socializing, and at first it works the brain (until they learn it), then it is a brainless thing but it still gives them something. Border collies need to be worked mentally not just physically. They will be more worn out if you start working their brains. Instead of just letting them run and play teach them tricks or something. I do not think electric fences work. I have known dogs that will still run off when they wanted even when they get shocked. You need to build some kind of pen. If you have that much land, you could build a large fenced area for the dogs. You need to prevent the problems instead of putting up with it. Everytime you let the dogs run off you are reinforcing the bad behavior. You should look at some other posts about "hope on a rope". It works. RE: Breeding---don't do it. Your dogs are loose cannons with their temperaments. Aggressiveness can be inherited and there is a good chance the puppies will be the same. People will want to meet the k9 parents. You will have a hard time placing puppies if the people can't even meet the parents without being attacked. If you had puppies, they would most likely end up in rescue. I am not trying to put you down, but you need to take control of the situation. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 My Advice, Get them fixed. They need correction. You need to get on them to the point where they understand that their behavior is wrong. IE nipping on heels. If I had a nipping dog it would wuickly understand what happens if it nips (always followed by some lovin') Do what it takes. If that means a higher level of physical action. take it for goodness sake. You must be consistent though. you can't use a shock to correct on behavior and then something else to correct another. you have to find out what it takes for the dog to listen to you and be consistent in this. This is my opinion. as well of the opinion of many others who have incredibly well behaved dogs who didn't go to dog school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 also, never let them off a leash. I would suggest a spiked training collar. these work tremendously. never let them get to the end of the leash. a slight tug should do. do not let them run loose. they need to be knocked down some notches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOYDL Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Not letting them run totally free seems to be the answer. How do you get them to come when you are watching them? [This message has been edited by BOYDL (edited 02-20-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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