Too much eye

[ejano]

Talk to me about a strong eyed dog now tending toward "sticky" in certain situations.

 

Robin now has a slow gear and is starting to drive on his own (what a beautiful sight!) and then he gets them up against a fence and we're stuck in freeze frame. He's waiting for the sheep to make a dash one way or the other and ignoring my entreaties to move around them to force them off the fence. They are barely breathing because he's glaring at them from about 5 feet away. When I do get his attention by walking closer to break the spell and he moves around them and off we go again.

 

 

(He's getting wider - especially on the come-bye side. We are working on the away side now - building from scratch.)

 

 

Thanks,

Liz

[Sue R]

Celt had issues with this as he would "bog down" when the sheep were in a corner (unlike Bute, who was good a slipping around them in a tight spot - must have been the long, pointy nose leading the way) - my trainer would have me take him by the collar and get him going between them and the corner, and let him go once he got started. He got the idea.

 

Maybe that's not quite your issue, though.

[ejano]

Celt had issues with this as he would "bog down" when the sheep were in a corner (unlike Bute, who was good a slipping around them in a tight spot - must have been the long, pointy nose leading the way) - my trainer would have me take him by the collar and get him going between them and the corner, and let him go once he got started. He got the idea.

 

Maybe that's not quite your issue, though.

 

 

That was an issue as in "uh oh - this is a new problem, what do I do now" kind of thing and we did a similar response.

 

This seems like it is something different. He's perfectly willing to stand or even lie down on his own and stare at those sheep all day. He's put them right where he wants them; they're his now and and by golly, he's going to keep them.

 

I did basically the same thing to unstick him - walked up close enough that I broke the spell he put himself under. I didn't have to touch him but I may have startled the sheep into moving and that kicked him into gear.

[TEC]

...This seems like it is something different. He's perfectly willing to stand or even lie down on his own and stare at those sheep all day. He's put them right where he wants them; they're his now and and by golly, he's going to keep them...

 

 

Holding sheep like that is an important skill. My dog has seemingly the opposite, instinct...she's fetching them back to me as her default maneuver, unless she is directed otherwise. Always fetching back has it's drawbacks, as well.

 

We do miles and miles of driving to help her overcome desire to fetch. We're doing better.

 

I agree that Robin is strong eyed, and sticky at times. Suggest finding exercises/jobs to loosen her up. I love watching dogs drive, with their heads down, "balancing sheep on their noses" as some like to say. It's beautiful, but try not to get mesmerized. Robin probably needs lots of flanks and changes of direction on the drive. Have her drive toward center of field, giving her plenty of room to periodically flank around and fetch them back to you. Break-up straight driving with numerous changes of direction.

 

Suggest having Robin push sheep toward fence (for now don't let her hug them directly against it), and try to keep her moving on her feet, avoiding down/stop as sheep approach fence. From the drive (no down/stop) have her flank around to fetch them back. Shape scraping crowded sheep off fence-line via repeating the exercise, but letting her push sheep closer to fence each time before asking for a fetch.

 

OK, so now you can send my dog some of Robin's drive mojo

-- Best Wishes, TEC

[juliepoudrier]

Liz,

It would be helpful if you had more sheep as a larger flock would help encourage less stickiness from Robin. I would teach him an on-your-feet stop vs. a lie down and honestly wouldn't lie him down any more than is absolutely necessary.

 

If he gets them to the fence and holds them, I think I'd not let him drive all the way to the fence in the first place. Each time you let him hold them against the fence you are just rewarding/exacerbating the stickiness.

 

I do a lot of exercises with youngsters up against the fence, wearing the sheep so that the dog has to go between the sheep and the fence, through the tight space repeatedly. If the sheep aren't wild runners, the dog soon learns that it can peel them off the fence, it can't go back into that high-pressure space, and it won't lose its sheep. Most of the time a dog with eye will prefer to hold them vs. risk losing them. If you are closer to him and can prevent the sheep from getting away from him, he'll become more comfortable scooping them off the fence instead of just defaulting to holding them there.

 

As always, when things aren't going right at a distance, you need to shorten things back up and get it right close in. If he knows his flanks well, I'd even consider verbally correcting him for holding them on the fence if you've asked him to flank around.

 

J.

[ejano]

We do need different sheep - and more of them - and a larger canvas. We have about a half acre square paddock to work in and I've been putting no more than three sheep out as I've been working on reducing his excitement level but if this is the result, it's time to up the ante.

 

He has a nice stop command that I can use to halt him on his feet. Now I see that I have to immediately follow up with something to keep him moving as while I'm trying to figure out which way to send him, he's settling in for a nice stare down and if he's feeling really comfortable, lies down on his own accord. I really need to get quicker with my commands -

 

About that moving between the sheep and the fenceline -- he's got no problem with that when he's under motion- in fact, I'd considered it was a fault as when we are wearing he will sometimes belt between them and the fence, pushing them toward the center of the field, but when he does this, he's coming forward circling all the way around me charging back between the sheep and the fence to push them out again which I understood wasn't allowed in a trial? Now that I write this, I see in my mind that when he does this, there is a fence corner is coming up and he likely doesn't want them to be trapped there? He has a tendency to want to orbit around me when we're wearing, but we've pretty much put that one to bed - I can successfully stop him, except at this point. Maybe I should listen to my dog more often.

 

 

Thanks, folks. I will put your suggestions to work. We're getting back in motion for lessons this fall. For these next two weeks, I'll put five sheep in, keep him off the fence and on the move and work on widening his outrun on the away side. That should keep me from creating new problems. He's a strong dog, very intense and focused. It took awhile to earn his respect.

 

 

 

As an aside, Brodie (his littermate) is completely opposite. It took a little longer for Brodie's nervy stage to work its way out but now I see that he doesn't have less work ethic than Robin - just a different level of intensity and style of working. He works so differently that it took me quite some time to realize what he was doing. Then I watched his mother working and realized he works like his mother, very loose, and instinctively stays way outside the flight zone. He's still a bit grippy when things get exciting but when he gets sheep up against a fence, he quietly and quickly goes in and gets them with no hesitation whatsoever. He never gets stuck. And he smiles when he works the sheep. He'll bring them to me then look up at me with those seal brown eyes and that silly smile as if to say, "Isn't this the best fun?"

 

It sure is. I feel very fortunate to have these two boys - they have so much to teach me.

[TEC]

And he smiles when he works the sheep. He'll bring them to me then look up at me with those seal brown eyes and that silly smile as if to say, "Isn't this the best fun?"

 

It sure is. I feel very fortunate to have these two boys - they have so much to teach me.

 

What great attitudes, both you and dogs. Our dogs keep it fun and interesting. -- TEC