ABCA registrations?

[Cumulus Cloud]

I have a border collie that is from a crossover with sporting and working lines. On her dad's side, there are agility champions and on her mom's side there's a long background in cattle and sheep herding. Neither whom has any conformation titles in their history. When I first got my puppy, Cloud, I made the foolish decision on choosing the AKC reg. forms over the ABCA when given the option since I wasn't too familiar with the program back then. I know there are dual registered dogs out there and that is what I'm thinking of doing with Cloud but I'm not so sure how to. Do I inform Cloud's breeder of my decision and have her fill out a new sheet for me and her to sign?

Also, since Cloud is already 14 months old, is there any other reasons why I would want to register my dog again with ABCA? My reason right now is that, I don't want to support what the AKC is doing to the border collie breed and I feel it is proper for Cloud to be registered with ABCA since she comes from good lines and we are currently training in sheep herding and she is very keen on her work.

Thanks,

- Jenna L.

[juliepoudrier]

Here's ABCA's page on registration. You should be able to find the answer there about registering her. The breeder does have to fill out and sign the paperwork, and there are requirements related to the age of the dog that will likely affect you.

 

Unless you're planning to breed, the damage is already done, so to speak. AKC got their money for registration and changing her registry (well actually just adding to it) isn't really going to make a difference, again, unless you plan to breed and want to register puppies with ABCA. And since you're just starting to work her on stock, you're really not in a position to evaluate her working potential in order to determine her breeding potential anyway. If she ends up being really nice, you could always ROM her on down the line.

 

Otherwise, I think I'd forget about her registration. You don't need any sort of registration to compete in USBCHA style herding events, nor any many sporting events. You have the AKC registration that is necessary for AKC performance events.

 

So at this point, I don't see any real reason to go to the trouble of registering her with ABCA unless you'd just like to add a little $$ to their coffers to make up for adding money to AKC's.

 

J.

[Cumulus Cloud]

Hi Julie,

 

thanks for your reply. I suspected that registrations aren't a big deal unless i'm planning to breed, which i know is way ahead of both me and Cloud. I'll admit that i'm interested but nothing more of that until Cloud has aged a bit more and fully proven herself with stock work and breeding potential.

 

[Smalahundur]

Julie can probably answer this related question (sheer curiosity as am not living in the US) how difficult is ROM actually? What should the dog demonstrate, talent for working stock obviously, but do you know how this is evaluated?

[Gloria Atwater]

From what I've heard, the ROM program is formidable and has a lot of hoops to jump through. Here is the language of the ROM requirements from ABCA. I am underlining two of the requirements that I find the toughest:

 

All application requests and documents must be filed with the Secretary through the ABCA office in Perkinston, Mississippi.

 

I. All of these conditions must be met:

 

A. A pedigree of the dog should be supplied to the Secretary, giving all details available on the sire and dam, including registration numbers when available.

 

B. Evidence that both sire and dam have received an OFA rating of "good" or "excellent" hips, or Cornell University Veterinary Radiology Department reports stating that their hips are not dysplastic. (This condition may be impractical or impossible to meet in some cases. The ROM Committee has the authority to waive this condition in some circumstances.)

 

C. A report by a DACVO-certified Veterinary Ophthalmologist must be supplied, indicating that the dog seeking registration on merit has been examined within 24 months prior to the date of application and has been found free of heritable eye disease. CEA DNA test results indicating that the dog is not CEA Affected must also be supplied. In addition, either an OFA rating of "good" or "excellent" hips, or a Cornell University Veterinary Radiology Department report stating that the dog's hips are not dysplastic, based upon x-rays taken when the dog was two years old or older, must be supplied.

 

D. Fee: $100 non-refundable. The applicant will also be required to bear whatever cost may be incurred by the committee to meet eligibility requirements.

 

E. A video of the dog working livestock must be supplied to each member of the ROM Committee. That Committee will make a recommendation whether to refer to the full Board of Directors or not. If referred to the full Board, a video of the dog working livestock must be supplied to the rest of the Directors unless some of them have seen the dog and do not need a video.

 

F. The owner of the dog requesting registration on merit must be a member in good standing of the American Border Collie Association, Inc.

 

G. The dog or bitch cannot have been previously deregistered by the ABCA.

 

II. Working Qualifications (One or the other of these options must be met.)

 

A. Written proof that the dog seeking registration on merit has placed in the top 10% of three open, advertised National style and size trials judged under ISDS or USBCHA rules.

 

B. To pass the working qualifications, the dog must demonstrate outstanding abilities in outrun, lift, fetch, driving, and must satisfy the Directors as to his good balance, power, and eye. At least three of the Directors must see the dog in person working livestock at a place other than his home on livestock that he is not used to. In the event that the distance required to meet with 3 Directors is considered unreasonable, a handler may apply to the Board to substitute 1 or 2 of the 3 Directors required to see the dog in person with qualified handlers satisfactory to the Board.

 

In all cases, at least three Directors (or at least one Director, in cases where the Board has designated alternate evaluators because of unreasonable distance) must see the dog seeking registration on merit, and 11 of the 12 Directors must vote to approve the dog for registration.

 

As you can see, it's not enough to just have a talented dog. You have to be trialing your dog successfully and placing well, and then you have to please the Directors (or their representatives) who come to evaluate your dog's skills in the required manner.

 

Does anyone know how many dogs have actually made it through the ROM program?

 

~ Gloria

[juliepoudrier]

Gloria,

The requirements you emphasized are either/or requirements. It says "one or the other" must be met, not that dogs must meet both. This is to enable someone who is not trialing in open (say a working farm dog) to be able to ROM a dog. For the person I know who ROMed a dog, the three directors met at a neutral location and had the handler put her dog through his paces. She had to do all the documentation required (all known relatives, etc.), but the dog was older and not yet trialing in open and was able to be ROMed on the recommendation of the three board members who met and watched him work. It wasn't a done deal at that point, though. Those three still had to go back and meet with the full board and then the board had to decide.

 

The fact that three board members have to travel somewhere means that the person seeking ROM needs to be sure they aren't wasting everyone's time. The dog should be capable of doing open level work even if it is not trialing in open.

 

Smalahundur,

I don't remember the details in my friend's case, but I'm pretty sure the dog had to demonstrate all the skills that are tested on the open trial field and also had to work on a larger group of sheep (not just 3-5 that you'd encounter at a trial). I can ask her the details if you're really interested.

 

I know of at least two who have made it through the ROM program. There are probably a couple more.

 

J.

[Smalahundur]

 

Smalahundur,

I don't remember the details in my friend's case, but I'm pretty sure the dog had to demonstrate all the skills that are tested on the open trial field and also had to work on a larger group of sheep (not just 3-5 that you'd encounter at a trial). I can ask her the details if you're really interested.

 

 

Thanks for your thorough answer (you too Gloria). I was mainly interested in the ABCA policy in these matters, and how difficult it was to ROM a certain dog.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Most of the people know that my Tess was the third Border Collie to get ROM. I knew of her lines and she was full ISDS lines, but one ancestor was imported, and registered in the German herding Club not not the ISDS club. On that side was all ISDS dog and her grandmother was one of the top herding dog in Germany. Her USA lines were Border Collies who worked on cattle ranches in Alberta. if they didn't make the grade, they didn't live.

 

It took us a long time and I think all of the ABCA Directors saw her at the USBCHA National Finals where she ran in the Nursery Class. Based on that as well as her very successful Nursery career and letters written by "Big Hats" and showcased by Scott, she was granted her ROM. She also had to have good hips and eyes.

 

Was it worth it? Yes.

 

Did it prove that the ROM program worked.

 

She ran as a Open dog, won lots, ran in the Open at Finals and at 11 years old, qualified. Her sons and daughters, grandpup, greatgrandpups and great-greatgrand pups ran in the Cattledog Nursery finals as well as the Sheepdog Nursery and Open Finals.

 

Tess made me the handler that I am today. Without, I wouldn't be so successful.

 

Would I do it if I had a differnt dog? Only, if I really thought it would add value to the program.

 

You don't need your dog to have the ABCA papers to run in the USBCHA trials. Tess did just that until she got her papers. Kelpies run here in the USBCHA trials all the time and they do not have the ABCA papers.

 

One of my foundation bitches came with her AKC papers...I think it made a great firestarte on cold night.

[Sue R]

One of my foundation bitches came with her AKC papers...I think it made a great firestarte on cold night.

Glad to hear that you found a good use for them!