working towards pronovice

[JBP]

Hello all...I wrote in about catching the herding bug one year ago, and I haven't been able to shake it!!

I am working two dogs that are completely different. One is a beautifully paced gentleman with square flanks but a good bit of eye and a tendency to stop a bit short instead of covering well. The other is a fast bold female that is a natural outrunner and gatherer but is not so good about turning off for her flanks and I practically have to stand on her head for a good pace.

Both dogs can do long outruns and both dogs are starting to drive fairly well with me 10-25 feet away.

My question for you bigger hats is could you offer some good homework exercises for me in between my lessons with the trainer? Things that have worked well for y'all if you recognize your dog in either of my descriptions?

Thanks in advance, and sorry this is so wordy!

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Do you have sheep? If so, there's nothing better you can do than simply walking quietly with the sheep, tons and tons of walking. Do both wearing (this will help your dog that is stopping short) and driving (this will help your dog that hasn't quite got the pace idea down). Let the distance on driving happen naturally and worry more about simply keeping the dog comfortable and calm behind the sheep and less about straight lines.

 

Without sheep there's not much you can do to advance your progess at this stage. Other than reinforce you partnership during other activities.

[JBP]

Thanks for your reply. Yes I have a few sheep, 2 lambs, 2 wethers that work well and one Barb wether that doesn't (but he makes it challenging ). The 3 ewes are over at their boyfriend's house right now but will be back in a month.

I had not thought about wearing helping the male to cover, that's a good idea.

Along the same lines of questions, how much do you walk (length of time), as far as training sessions go? When I am staying on her hard as far as pace and "notching" to help square her flanks better, she's pretty hot after 20 minutes (brain fry, she's in good physical condition). Thanks for the suggestion of more laidback driving without worrying so much about lines,etc. More suggestions welcome!

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I have about a 15 acre field - I just walk up and down once, do a little work on flanks and stopping, then I'm done. My dogs are both older so they can handle twice a day if I can get to it. A younger dog, I'd do half as much and still get out a couple times if I could - but it depends very much on your dog. As your dogs are two different personalities, be very alert for what practice schedule seems to work best for each dog.

 

There's really nothing better than quiet legwork for beginner dogs.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

>> One is a beautifully paced gentleman with square flanks but a good bit of eye and a tendency to stop a bit short instead of covering well<<

 

If he truly shorts short on a outrun, then use light sheep that will bolt so he will have to cover. Also you can sshh him at like 9:00. Another way is to dash at him so he wants to move away....meaning he stops short, then run at him saying get out of it, and flank him so then he will get the idea of stopping short will result cause more grief than finish his work.

Or you can do the circle drill....I can explaing that later.....try the above first.

 

>>>The other is a fast bold female that is a natural outrunner and gatherer but is not so good about turning off for her flanks and I practically have to stand on her head for a good pace.

I am partial to him!!

 

Diane

[JBP]

He just gave you a polite lick back!

I am doing the ssshhh, with a bit of a correction also so that he knows stopping was not acceptable ("Hey? What's the matter with you? Sssssh, come bye!!) I also try to move myself over in the opposite direction so that to balance to me he has to overcover, kwim?

 

Diane, he'd drive all day and the sheep just love him.

 

Please tell me more about the circle drill.

 

On the female, she is wired for sound. She HATES giving any ground to stock because she is so afraid she is going to lose them. So when I ask her to take her flanks while driving she goes more at a diagonal which obviously rushes them and we lose the pace that I have stood on her head to achieve! So far, on the outside flank if I say "stay out" and then give the command, she is squaring better. On the inside, I have to come way back and say "come bye/away, here" to pull her a bit MORE than 90degrees. Hope this is making sense.

 

Btw, I couldn't get in CarolAnn's Oct.7 trial, but her dad's trial is Oct.28 and I am going to try to get them in that one.

 

Please keep the drills/exercise info coming!

[JBP]

Rebecca, thanks! Time for me to put my walking shoes on and start meandering around the pasture!

The female is 3 and the male is 2 so they can hang pretty well if they are not being schooled hard.

[Pipedream Farm]

My Rae was a bit like you describe in your female. She'd rush and slice her flanks because she was worried about losing control. Rae actually comes from naturally square flanking parents and when things were in control, she was naturally square. I just worked a lot at teaching her patience and to work calmly. I would work her for long sessions driving the whole flock. I'd practice speeding her up and then slowing her down. With her, as long as I kept calm and relaxed, she would relax. Once she got the hang of that I'd practice having her calmly driving sheep in and out of gates into different areas. Once she learned that she could stay calm even with flighty sheep and not lose them , everything fell into place. To do these types of exercises, it's very important that the sheep don't win. You really need to plan ahead and think through how the sheep might react and have her do things where you feel confident about the sheep not being able to escape from her. --it's not an overnight process.

Renee

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I have Trey's sister here now. She is a red/white freckled doll. Nice fast wide outrunning, good pace and just a honey to run. Lucy came back when the husband got sick. I'll be putting more training on her but she sure is a natural. Sticky like Trey but I give her the ahhhhh and she moves. Very stylish and super keen.

 

Ok, the circle drill.....sheep in middle and you then the dog.

 

Dog circles the sheep one way and you follow at the hip....so sheep, then you about XX ft (halfway to the dog) or so from the sheep and then the dog about XX-more feet out (on the bubble to be exact) , he is going around the sheep and you are following with a imaginary line to his hip. If you get far forward you will catch his eye and he may stop.

 

Now as he circles the sheep and he stops, then walk into him and give him a sshhhh....your pressure into him will kick him out.

 

To stop him, walk in front of him so you catch his eye and he will stop. Then keep him down, walk backwards through the sheep and then give him a walkup....he will walk into the sheep and will have a square flank.

 

You can do this also by letting him do a half circle and you not moving so then he is on the other side of the sheep, down him and then ask him to walk up.

 

This drill will make the dog feel the bubble or pressure point, square the flank and have a proper lift. Trying to explain this is hard, it is best to show in person.

 

Hope this help..

 

I'll post a pixs of Lucy soon!!

Diane

[JBP]

Thanks Renee, I like the idea of the larger flock driving plus the farm work of going through different gates. (I originally only wanted my female trained to work around my farm, then I went to my first trial ).

 

Thanks Diane, I am going to read and reread the circle drill and try that today. BTW, Trey had his first paying gig a couple weeks ago. I had this appt where I had to work a lady's goats. Every year my technician and I work these goats, and every year she doesn't fix the holes in her pitiful pen and goats get out. Once out on the 1.5 acre pasture, there's no getting them back in. So this time, my tech said, "Bring a dog!". So I did. These goats had never seen a dog other than her little pomeranians. But Trey gathered them right up, and moved them into the pen. He then manned the gate (it's too high off the ground and a goat or two would always squeeze under) while we worked the rest--none got past him! Two goats did escape from the other side of the pen, so Trey and I went back out, gathered them--one was her 175# Boer buck, and he challenged Trey a couple times...Trey was polite but didn't give any ground and the buck chose the correct path back to the pen! My tech and I were thrilled that there was no running on our part, ALL the goats were treated (first time in 3 years!), and the lady was tickled to death to see a "real sheepdog". I charged her $35 extra for the dog's time. She didn't blink as she wrote out the check. PROUD MOMENT