Goose Dogs

[Susano]

I'm new to this forum and writing to learn about BC's as goose dogs. Would someone inform me of....the time committment required to make a golf course "goose free" using one dog? Also, what does it cost for a golf course to hire a goose dog? Is there a breeder that anyone could recommend for a trained dog? I live in Ontario but would be willing to travel for the right dog.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I think it would be beyond the scope of this site to recommend a commercial site, but if you google "Border collie goose control" or "Border collie goose removal" you will find a plethora of businesses who specialize in what you need.

 

You can go one of three routes, that I'm aware of:

 

You can hire someone to come and remove geese on a contract basis. This person will visit on a predetermined schedule based on the needs of your facility. They bring all their own equipment and dogs, with the exception of golf carts to gain access to remoter parts of a course. The dogs are generally trained to chase geese but not harm them - the geese see them as the predators they thought they were escaping by taking up residence on your nicely predator-free facility.

 

A good sevice can demonstrate that they can remove birds from bodies of water as well as land. The dogs should be under excellent control, both on land and in water in hot pursuit. They should be focused on their work and not interested in socilizing with people or other animals, or chasing unauthorized objects (like grounds maintenance equipment). This is true of whatever approach you decide to go with.

 

You can purchase a dog. You'll have to decide on a handler, in that case, who will need to be trained. You'll be financially liable if something happens to the dog at some point, and you'll also be fully responsible to upkeep the dog's training as detailed in your contract - ie, if problems arise down the road due to mishandling, it will be your nickle.

 

You can also lease a dog on contract. There is still some responsibility to keep the dog safe and handle it as detailed in the contract, but there is usually more wiggle room in this arrangement. Some leases include a handler (this is more usual in very large commercial facilities like airports), but most again will require you to have a handler trained. The nice thing is the ongoing relationship you maintain with a superior service - if you go this route make sure you get lots of references, of course.

 

Take a peek around the internet to see if there's anyone local, and also look in your trade mags and call around the various advertisers there. You'll also see bird removal professionals at trade shows, if you check your show guides.

 

Good luck!

[Susano]

Dear Rebecca,

Thanks for your info. In fairness to you, I should have phrased my questions better (kids were being demanding). I used to have 2 BC's, both died in their senior years of natural causes. It was devastating! That was 3 yrs ago. I used to do obedience/flyball/agility and compete. Now I have 2 young children and less time. Since I live in the suburbs of Toronto and am surrounded by golf courses, why not get another dog (we are petless). Train him to be a goose dog and enjoy the excersise and training on golf courses nearby. Should I spend $4000 on a dog already trained to do goose control? Would I recover that money with golf course contracts easily? Or do I get a puppy again, enjoy a family pet and deal with the energy requirements of a BC in the suburbs? Thanks for your response, it seems a little difficult to get the info that I'm looking for (ie.could I make a small business of this and have fun)....Susan

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Gotcha. This exact question was addressed not too long ago.

 

Goose control work is much more demanding than than sport competition. The problem I'd forsee for you is the fact that you'd have to go when the geese are there to be most effective - and that's highly unpredictable. Not discouraging you from trying to make it work, just giving you my perspective as another mother of young kids and trying to juggle those responsibilities with my business ventures.

 

I'd say offhand from my limited experience that raising a Border collie pup would make much fewer demands on your time than running goose control contracts. It can be a full-time job in the season, if your expectations are that it will repay your initial investment.

 

Another consideration is that most people work with more than one dog - that's a hefty investment. You can buy one trained and then train the next one yourself, but again that's a lot of time.

 

You could also get a rescue dog and see whether you can get someone to let you train on their geese. Again that's a lot of time, but it's another option to consider besides purchasing and it means you don't have to raise a puppy.

 

Mr.Snappy has lots of way cool dogs in her Canadian-based rescue.

 

I gotta run - speaking of puppies, mine has found my leather jacket and is dragging it off to kill somewhere . . .

[kelpiegirl]

I just got "into" this with my Kelpie. It was a trial basis at first, but my dog is a natural. What you need to think about is your dog's safety- do they use chemicals on the lawn? Are there hidden dangers anywhere? Also, it is a time committment.

Besides that, adults with babies are not to be messed with (they will fight), and therefore your best work is done before they nest (early spring).

Your dog should be able to swim comfortably, and not be worried about things like strangers, golf carts, noises, etc. My dog LOVES doing this, and that helps, but it is a committment.

 

Julie

[juliepoudrier]

Here's that related thread Becca mentioned. It might have some useful information for you.

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...ic;f=1;t=011269

 

One caution in doing this sort of work. I was talking with a friend of mine who lives at Pawley's Island, SC--you know Myrtle Beach and the land of golf courses. I asked him about the viability of a goose control business there and he said that at one time there was a woman doing some of that work. But she didn't do a great job and now many of the golf course owners don't want to even hear about goose control with dogs. So anyone who plans to go into this business should keep in mind the commitment and whether you can do a good job so that even if you quit doing it, someone coming along behind you won't have to fight an uphill battle to convince folks that goose control with dogs can work.

 

J.

[Susano]

Thanks everyone for the advice. What a terrific forum to talk about the greatest dogs!

[painted_ponies]

Julie - Did your friend say how they manage to keep the dogs safe from the gators that live in the golf course ponds? Or are geese not a problem where there are gators?

[juliepoudrier]

I don't know the answer to that. Are gators a problem in South Carolina? I would imagine that geese wouldn't attempt to hang out or nest where there is a predator, assuming a gator would hunt geese/goslings, which I imagine it would.

 

J.

[painted_ponies]

Originally posted by juliepoudrier:

Are gators a problem in South Carolina?

Not at all - they do a great job of keeping down the number of golfers!

 

There's actually fair money to be made in golf-ball retrieval for someone with scuba gear who doesn't mind spending lots of time in the dark feeling around in the mud at the bottom of water hazards. But yes, gators are an occupational hazard for ball divers at many of the golf course ponds, as are cottonmouths.

 

One would think geese would avoid nesting near gators, though. I don't golf, so have never really noticed if the water hazards with gators have a goose problem.

[Sue R]

Gators are now (again) found as far north as North Carolina - hence the name, Alligator River. That sure doesn't make NC any more appealing to me. Reptiles that can kill me are only fun in movies, and not in real life. I admit it, I'm a coward.

 

I would assume that geese avoid hazardous areas to nest, but I wonder at what point they would be aware of the presence of alligators and therefore nest elsewhere?

 

Anyway, you'll never see me retrieving golf balls from ponds in gator territory - actually, you'll never see me retrieving golf balls from ponds anywhere else, either. I don't do golf. And I'll keep my dogs out of the water in gator country, if I'm ever forced to go there.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Geese more or less avoid taking up residence in areas where there is high predatory pressure. That's why they are moving into residential areas. People take care of the predators, the geese say "Thanks!" and take over all the nice grass that people also have a tendency to plant.

 

Thus, the basic idea behind goose control with dogs is not physically moving the geese (though that is a part of it, of course) - it's convincing them that the area patrolled by the dogs is now unsafe. Geese are very discriminating. I've seen them keep clear of two ponds in a neighborhood where the homeowners allowed goose removal - and take over a third adjacent pond where a homeowner refused access.

[juliepoudrier]

Sue,

Yes the Alligator River was named because of resident alligators (though I wonder how many actually reside there now), and there's even a pond in Gates County that "boasts" of alligators, but I don't think you need to fear being dragged off by gators here in NC. We don't have anywhere near the populations of gators that they have further south (i.e., Florida).

 

I never saw an alligator the entire time I lived in the eastern part of NC, practically neighbors with the Dismal Swamp, though I saw black bears on numerous occasions (which was really cool!).

 

You're more likely to be carted off by alligator-sized mosquitoes in the eastern part of the state.

 

 

J.

[painted_ponies]

I don't think there's an official head count of SC gators, but Dept. of Natural Resources now classes them as "abundant." They say they responded to 500 "nuisance gator" calls last year.

 

A nuisance gator is one who shows up somewhere it shouldn't. A couple of years ago, we even had a six-footer on the beach! And one that turned up at the old folks home - the paper showed him sunning himself amongst the chaise lounges on the lawn.

 

We're pretty fond of our gators, actually. DNR says its mostly tourists and people new to the area who call and complain about them - the locals get upset, DNR say, if they try to remove a "nuisance" gator.

 

But gators are supposed to find dogs particularly yummy, so I don't think I'd send Violet into any golf course ponds. :eek:

[Sue R]

You're more likely to be carted off by alligator-sized mosquitoes in the eastern part of the state.

Any mosquito that was smaller than a large alligator would have no chance of carting me off. That said, alligators are just one more reason I don't really want to relocate to north-eastern NC.

 

By the way, on the subject of mosquitos, my brother-in-law is the "Mosquito Man" for that area of the state. I am amazed at how many different mosquito-themed tee-shirts and other giftie items there are.

 

Did anyone ever hear the one about that dog in Florida (I think) that saved his elderly owner from a gator that came up on the sidewalk where she'd fallen? The gator was found - the dog had injuries (he recovered) and the gator had coresponding injuries. That happened within the last year or so.