Shelby Kennels Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Novice handler question. I am working a young dog (13 mos). She has really nice flanks, balance, short drive...but I am struggling with her lie down. She will take the command...after about 2-3 more steps. I know this can mean the difference in whether or not I make a panel. I have a lesson Friday morning with her but am interested in hearing how other trainers work with this issue. I am afraid of putting too much pressure on her even tho' she seems to handle the correction well. Right now each time I do not get the immediate lie down we are stopping, letting the sheep go on, getting the lie down ( and yes, I want a lie down and not a stop - of course she is not stopping right away either), and starting over. Letting the sheep move on seems to bother her the most and by the end of the lesson I am coming much closer to getting that lie down I want. But the next day we seem to start at the same place with the lie down.I also am afraid to using the command too often with her just because I am trying to train the lie down. Am I looking for too much too early - and if I let it slide now am I looking for breaking a bad habit later? Off sheep she has a wonderful lie down but is so keen on the sheep we lose it. Any comments would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Novice to novice: (grain of salt alert) Ask for it at easy times (on balance, when the sheep are in worked into a corner or on a fence) and then work up to when it's harder (off balance, when the sheep are moving). I was at a clinic a couple weekends ago. My husband's dog is uneasy about stopping in certain situations. Someone leaned on him a bit hard to force him to stop and our instructor recognised the fear that caused. Once the dog was confident taking the stop (with strict enforcement) in easy situations, the instructor mixed it up with very fun fast flanking - rewarding a stop of any kind with an instant flank - soon he was getting the dog to think and stop happily. Edit - couldn't find any pics of my husband's dog doing this but here's Rick doing an "easy down" - for a different reason but it looks the same. I don't know whether that's helpful at all - every dog is different. One thing I learned at this last clinic is that every problem has a context. Another thing is that the vast majority of the time, if I am seeing a problem, I need to consider whether I'm putting too much pressure on the dog and unfairly causing it to deal with something it can't handle. Hmm, now to learn how to apply that knowlege - should only take ten years or so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Kennels Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Becca - Thinking about your post and what I wrote....I think her big fear is the sheep "getting away". She pretty much comes in against a fence with a flank or any other time with "no fear" and it's hard to keep her off the sheep. I'll try more working with an immediate flank when I get the lie down. But now that maybe I see her fear and perhaps reason for not wanting to give me the lie down we can work around it and will try to do it by giving an immediate reward for the lie down....this will be easier to do at the end of each lesson. She is just so gung ho and right now has two speeds....fast and stop on occasion! Maybe in ten years I will get it too! Thanks for the input, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Kennels Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 By the way....I do not normally try to stop her off balance. In fact, when we are wearing is when she seems to have the hardest time stopping. However, the easiest time to stop her is at her outrun at 12. I'll work her tomorrow, Friday during my lesson with a brush up Friday evening and run her novice/novice Saturday and see how much fun we can have! Thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hi Kim, Every young dog fears sheep getting away when it lies down. The trick is to set up situations where the dog actually regains control of the sheep by easing up on them. Becca's photos show just such a situation. Once they have figured out that the world will not end when their bellies hit the ground, must dogs become a lot better at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Kennels Posted October 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Thanks. "Control" was more of the term that I should have used than "sheep getting away". I am sure that in my lesson tomorrow I will understand more on the concept, by actually working it correctly, how to make her more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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