Teeter training question.

[Carlasl]

Hey everyone,

 

I am teaching maya the teeter, with the two table method. She has been very unsure of the teeter (movement and noise part) before we started with the two table method and so we are going slow and I really want to build her confidence on it, I am having one issue that I want to get opinions on.

 

Her confidence is really high on it using this method, better than I could have hoped, right now I have the tables at 20" and 16". I am not asking for any sort of 2o2o right now (not until one end is on the ground), I really want to focus on getting her to drive to the end of the teeter, she does well at medium speed, but when she starts going fast she hops over the contact onto the table and I really would rather she not do that.

 

Any suggestions on how to correct this without ruining her confidence, should I keep going at medium speed so she goes all the way to the end of the board, and then increase speed once I know she knows what to do, or should I just focus on speed and fun (she has more fun when going FAST!) and then worry about the end contact behavior when I know she is comfortable with the movement and noise.

 

I might try to take some video today and see if I can get it up that might help with suggestions. Although I shudder at the thought of putting video of myself up lol....

[SecretBC]

My first question is -- Did you do wobble board work with her?

 

Second question is -- Did you do a lot of the "bang game" with her?

 

I believe strongly that both are very important things to do before ever going to the actual teeter.

 

Secret was TERRIFIED of movement and noise, so every week at the dog center where I taught she would get time with the wobble board. At first it was a matter of just getting her near it (I used shaping with the clicker). Then I had to get her to touch it. It took three sessions before she started to make it tip. Eventually she became a crack-head about it and I had to put the wobble board away or she wouldn't do anything else.

 

In addition to that, we would go over to the big teeter and I would click/treat while slamming it on the ground. She would jump a mile away the first few times, but then she started to associate the slam with good things.

 

I also let her practice her 2-on/2-off position on the lowered end of the teeter to build positive association with the obstacle (she LOVES doing 2o/2o).

 

Once all of this was in place, I started to work her on a very low teeter (I don't have tables to use, or else we'd do that!). She has taken to it like a fish to water and she'll spin circles on that thing if I ask her to. She's not bothered at all by movement and I've been able to raise the teeter very quickly with her. Can't keep her away from it...

 

I really do think that extensive work with the wobble/tippy board is key, to get the dog highly reinforced for having something moving under their feet.

[Carlasl]

My first question is -- Did you do wobble board work with her?

 

Second question is -- Did you do a lot of the "bang game" with her?

 

I believe strongly that both are very important things to do before ever going to the actual teeter.

 

Secret was TERRIFIED of movement and noise, so every week at the dog center where I taught she would get time with the wobble board. At first it was a matter of just getting her near it (I used shaping with the clicker). Then I had to get her to touch it. It took three sessions before she started to make it tip. Eventually she became a crack-head about it and I had to put the wobble board away or she wouldn't do anything else.

 

In addition to that, we would go over to the big teeter and I would click/treat while slamming it on the ground. She would jump a mile away the first few times, but then she started to associate the slam with good things.

 

I also let her practice her 2-on/2-off position on the lowered end of the teeter to build positive association with the obstacle (she LOVES doing 2o/2o).

 

Once all of this was in place, I started to work her on a very low teeter (I don't have tables to use, or else we'd do that!). She has taken to it like a fish to water and she'll spin circles on that thing if I ask her to. She's not bothered at all by movement and I've been able to raise the teeter very quickly with her. Can't keep her away from it...

 

I really do think that extensive work with the wobble/tippy board is key, to get the dog highly reinforced for having something moving under their feet.

 

Yes we have done wobble board and bang it games with her since she was a puppy, those movements and noise don't bother her at all it was just when we moved to the big teeter and tried to teach it the way my trainer teachers her dog (run to the end with someone holding it up and then drop it) that she started having problems.

 

She doesn't seem to have any problem with the movement and noise at home with the two table method, our training facility has a very loud teeter and I plan to work on the noise with her on it before I ever ask her to get on it.

 

My question was about jumping over the end of the board though, the movement and noise don't bother her now, I was just trying to give some background information so everyone understood she has some past issues with the noise and movement but seems over that now, but I want to be sure I am not de-motivating her on the teeter now.

[muttlycrew]

If it were me, I wouldn't be asking for speed until she can do the obstacle 150%. Once she can do it full height and knows she needs to go into her 2o2o position, that's when I would start asking for more speed.

 

You could always back-chain since she seems to have no issues with the movement/noise.

 

This is what we did (at the same table heights) after the wobble boards/bang it games:

Work on offering a 2o2o at the end of the teeter

Scoot back to the tipping point and have her drive into a 2o2o from there

Add the whole board

 

When Stella was successful with this, I would play around with the tables heights until it was full height. She now understands that her 'job' on this obstacle is to drive to her 2o2o position asap. This is at whatever speed she feels comfortable at. At each height change we did the same things. Her speed came with the confidence of understanding this obstacle.

 

Since she is almost 150% solid on driving to her contact and staying there until released, I will slowly start pushing for a little more speed in the next few weeks. The speed thing goes for all my contacts and it's seemed to work thus far. Good luck!

[SecretBC]

My question was about jumping over the end of the board though, the movement and noise don't bother her now, I was just trying to give some background information so everyone understood she has some past issues with the noise and movement but seems over that now, but I want to be sure I am not de-motivating her on the teeter now.

 

I'm sorry, my eyes must have totally glazed over that part!

 

Can you have someone restrain her at one end of the board while you recall her to a game of tug at the end?

 

There's a great series of videos on YouTube that show the progress from start to end using table training -- Here is the first video:

 

 

You'll see that she's very into rewarding with tug on the end position. I have to use food with Secret, because I can't for the life of me get her THAT into tugging yet.

 

If the teeter at the training center is too loud, you can always fold up a towel at put it under the end until she masters it a bit more.

[Diana A]

We used to use the two tables method in our beginner classes. Quite a few dogs would jump the end. It seemed to be their way of avoiding having to ride the bang, just jump over it as soon as it starts to tip, before it slams. We finally switched methods, thinking that possibly since the dogs couldn't predict when the bang would come (since the table height would change to make a bigger drop, so dog thinks it will slam, then it drops another few inches first), the dogs couldn't prepare for impact and so were trying to avoid it. I know a lot of people have success with this metod, but it just didn't seem to work that well for our classes (volunteer instructors, wide variety of pet/newbie type students). We went to putting a chair under one end so there was a very small drop to the ground, and having the dog hop up from the side so the board dropped right away and made the bang. Then we 'd move the chair to make more drop. The board always went all the way to the ground so the dogs knew what to expect. That seemed to work better for most of them; I think the only dogs who had a problem with the teeter last session were one or two who missed a bunch of weeks.

 

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right.

of my puppy doing it this way (the first little bit is him working some weave entrances, then the teeter is next). You'd start it just about an inch off the ground; it's higher than that in the video.

 

If you're really convinced it's not the bang or the noise, then I'd ask for the 2on2off on the table at the end of the board - the dog can't jump over the end if they're aiming for a 2on2off contact position.

 

Diana

[Carlasl]

Thanks everyone,

 

I have seen the youtube video of Leda with the two tables, that is sort of what clinched me wanting to try that method I liked what I saw there.

 

Diana, we do play that game with her (bang it game), although she is not as enthusiastic about is as your pup is , I don't think she is jumping over the end to avoid the bang, I think she was jumping over it to get to her reward faster (tennis ball).

 

We did it a few times tonight and I rewarded her with tug instead of her ball and it went much better, she didn't jump over the end and I didn't try to really push a lot of speed out of her.

 

I just want to be sure she understand that the point is driving to the end, I don't want her stopping on the pivot point at all. So I don't want to decrease her speed too much, but I think making sure she drives to the end and doesn't jump over it is important also.

 

She is already doing much better with this method, than with anything else I have tried so I am really pretty happy so far.