Robin sick again

[ejano]

I'm about halfway through my first bag of primitive naturals, which the gang chomps down enthusiastically - but Robin was sick again last night in his crate about an hour after eating. (The had missed regular supper time due to the visit to the AKC facility, so we had a snack before and a snack after). Robin has never thrown up before this and he's been to the vet after the first episode and was fine.)

 

Could it be the food? I haven't fed him this morning, but before I found this, he was drinking and clearing out Ladybug's dish with great enthusiasm....so he's got an appetite.

 

 

Earthborn Holistic® Primitive Natural™ Dog Food: Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein, not less than 38.00%

Crude Fat, not less than 20.00%

Crude Fiber, not more than 2.50%

Moisture, not more than 10.00%

Vitamin E, not less than 200 IU/kg

Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA), not less than 0.10%*

Omega-6 Fatty Acids, not less than 3.30%*

Omega-3 Fatty Acids, not less than 0.55%*

L-Carnitine, not less than 15 mg/kg*

 

*Not recognized as an essential ingredient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

 

5184 kilo-calories per kg | 717 kilo-calories per cup

[AmandaMJL]

Compare those numbers with what you used to feed Robin. I know if I switch foods too quickly for one of my BCs they get the lovely runs, the others have iron stomachs and nothing bothers them - but never vomiting. What exactly is Robin bringing up? Bile? Food? Is he eating too fast?

[ejano]

Compare those numbers with what you used to feed Robin. I know if I switch foods too quickly for one of my BCs they get the lovely runs, the others have iron stomachs and nothing bothers them - but never vomiting. What exactly is Robin bringing up? Bile? Food? Is he eating too fast?

 

It's the food...partially digested. The last episode he heaved everything in his stomach it seems but this time it was just a little bit...I'd fed about a half cup after coming back from the rally.

 

He seems fine, his usual energetic pesky self.....and we've been with the food for about three weeks now.

 

Liz

[AmandaMJL]

When he eats is he eating to quickly? Do you wet the food and let it soak before feeding it? Do you add yogurt to the food? (Sorry for the 50 questions LOL)

[juliepoudrier]

To me, that's a pretty high level of protein and fat, not to mention a lot of calories per cup of food. It may be that it's just too "rich" for his system. If he's not working hard every day, I think I'd find something with fewer calories and a little less protein and fat.

 

J.

[AmandaMJL]

To me, that's a pretty high level of protein and fat, not to mention a lot of calories per cup of food. It may be that it's just too "rich" for his system. If he's not working hard every day, I think I'd find something with fewer calories and a little less protein and fat.

 

J.

 

Agreed, that's why I'd like to see the comparison of the old food he was on...

[ejano]

Julie, I think you're right and when we discussed the switch, you did menetion this might be a problem - there's a four % jump in the fat content.

 

Former food was Diamond Naturals - Chicken and Rice,

(both the fat and protein in the Primative are higher)

 

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein 26.0% Minimum

Crude Fat 16.0% Minimum

Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum

Moisture 10.0% Maximum

Zinc 150 mg/kg Minimum

Selenium 0.4 mg/kg Minimum

Vitamin E 150 IU/kg Minimum

Omega-6 Fatty Acids * 2.5% Minimum

Omega-3 Fatty Acids * 0.4% Minimum

 

 

On the other hand, Brodie seems to be thriving on this new food....he liked it right from the beginning and he's an awfully picky eater as well as eating scant servings, that is, less than I think he ought to be for his weight. That was really the driving force in my choice -- Brodie was refusing to eat the Diamond Naturals and TSC seemed to be easing out of carrying it anyway and the sample of the new food was very enticing to Brodie -- I mixed a bag with the DN and he picked out all of the PN and ate it and spit out the DN.

 

It appears that TSC's new flag brand is brand is 4HI'd have to feed three cups of their new food each day as opposed to two cups of the Primative Naturals. I'm not sure Brodie would eat that much even in two or three feedings. He eats less than two cups of the PN.

 

If I were to go to the 4Heath, I go with the small bites because the dogs seem to like that size better, - even if they didn't have a picture of the Border Collie on the bag

 

Guaranteed Analysis of the 4Health:

Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%, Crude Fat (min.)12.0%, Omega?6 Fatty Acids (min.) 2.0%, Omega?3 Fatty Acids 0.3% (min.), Moisture (max.) 10.0%, Crude Fiber (max.) 4.0%, Glucosamine hydrochloride(min.) 1050 mg/kg, Chondroitin sulfate 350 mg/kg (min.), Zinc (min.) 150 mg/kg, L?Carnitine (min.) 30 mg/kg, Selenium (min.) 0.4 mg/kg, Vitamin E (min.) 150 IU/kg.

[juliepoudrier]

It may not be convenient, but you may just have to feed each dog a different food. I have several here who don't eat the same thing as everyone else. It's kind of a pain, but it's what works best for their health, so it's what I do....

 

And although the foods you have listed so far are all good foods, if something is upsetting Robin's GI system, it's more likely to be an ingredient or ingredients in one of the foods that's not in the other (IOW, even though I think the calories, etc., are pretty high for a dog with normal activity in the new food, there's also the possibility that there's an ingredient in one of the foods that doesn't agree with Robin.) So I'd check the labels and see if there's anything, especially in the top 5-7 ingredients, that is common to the foods that have upset his stomach but not the ones that haven't.

 

As Amanda notes, bolting food can also cause a dog to throw it back up almost instantly.

 

J.

[ejano]

It may not be convenient, but you may just have to feed each dog a different food. I have several here who don't eat the same thing as everyone else. It's kind of a pain, but it's what works best for their health, so it's what I do....

 

J.

 

Agreed - no different than feeding a dog and cat differently and the biggest problem is making sure who is really getting what. I feed in the crates and take away what's left untouched, so that's not really a problem.

 

In thinking it over, Robin's episodes kind of remind me of the awful day that I didn't get the memo that Canidea changed their ingredients and Scotty was major sick all over the living room rug - so bad we had to call the carpet cleaning folks in.

 

I'd really like to leave Brodie on the Primitive Naturals as he is not a heavy eater at all and could use a dense food...I see his breakfast is largely untouched and he and Ladybug have gone to back to bed with DH who has pneumonia. I hope they remember the "stay off my pillows" rule!

 

I"ll compare ingredients as you suggest and pick up a small bag of the 4health and start adjusting proportions for Robin and see how he does. Who knows, Brodie might like it too, but I'm thinking he won't eat enough of it to get the requisite nutrition. I call him little Bro Bro but in reality his height is equal to Robin's, he's just leaner with a flatter coat. He's only about three pounds lighter than Robin.

 

Have a good day,

Liz

[ejano]

When he eats is he eating to quickly? Do you wet the food and let it soak before feeding it? Do you add yogurt to the food? (Sorry for the 50 questions LOL)

 

 

I don't add anything to the food, or soak it Robin has always been a fast eater at first -- take a few huge bites, then stops to think about it and then resumes eating at what I assume is a reasonable pace, cleaning his food up in about 10 minutes. On the other hand, Brodie is very slow, sometimes eating just a piece at a time. Ladybug picks at things like that too, so I don't have a good measure of "eating too quickly." Up until the pups came, she was on "free food" - getting fed in the kitchen because she eats best when we're eating (We don't spoil our dogs or anything >, She still eats breakfast and dinner with us (pups are in their crates) but I started putting whatever's left of hers up after meal time, otherwise the pups snatched at it throughout the day, making it difficult to know exactly how much they were really eating.

 

Liz

[AmandaMJL]

I don't add anything to the food, or soak it Robin has always been a fast eater at first -- take a few huge bites, then stops to think about it and then resumes eating at what I assume is a reasonable pace, cleaning his food up in about 10 minutes.

 

Had he thrown up before with his old food at all? Perhaps it's because of the ingredients, but as well, sometimes when I've switched food for the first bit my crew eat like pigs. My Chilli is my worst and will throw up part of her meal if she eats even a bit of her food too fast... I've bought this - http://www.omegapaw.com/PortionPacer.html for her and no throwing up since.

[ejano]

Had he thrown up before with his old food at all? Perhaps it's because of the ingredients, but as well, sometimes when I've switched food for the first bit my crew eat like pigs. My Chilli is my worst and will throw up part of her meal if she eats even a bit of her food too fast... I've bought this - http://www.omegapaw.com/PortionPacer.html for her and no throwing up since.

 

 

No , Robin has the constitution of a goat and has never thrown up before this week, which is why I thought he may have eaten something out of the ordinary -i.e. part of the couch . But the vet says he's fine. We've been on the new food for about three weeks, so it shouldn't be a novelty to him, but sometimes he is in an awful hurry to eat and get going -- kinda like a kid!

 

Thanks for your help and advice. We'll see what we can do about slowing down his food intake and cutting back on the high protein/high fat food. He eats pretty much anything so a gradual switch should be fairly straightforward.

 

Liz

[Tommy Coyote]

To me, that's a pretty high level of protein and fat, not to mention a lot of calories per cup of food. It may be that it's just too "rich" for his system. If he's not working hard every day, I think I'd find something with fewer calories and a little less protein and fat.

 

J.

That's what I was going to say. Ifeed my dogs Evo canned and dry. Evo is about 500 calories per cup. Iams, I think, only runs about 350 per cup.

 

Its really easy to overfeed with some of these foods.