Boo and fear aggression

[nancy in AZ]

First I want to say I read through the post linked below and found alot of valuable info. I'm still not able to get around too well, but I am improving. My point is, it would still be difficult for me to take Boo on a leash for a walk anywhere to socialize him around other people. And I've been wracking my brain to come up with someone I could trust to assist me with his fear aggression. I think having Kit along would be very helpful-- there's no one she doesn't love. He's been nothing but deferential to me in every situation, doesn't hesitate to lay on his back for a belly rub, and other than briefly acting slightly "soft" if I verbally correct him (tucking head and tail-I always praise when he obeys), acts joyful and enthusiastic. I have yet to find a treat that he's thrilled with. I even hand fed him bits of sirloin steak, which would have my other dogs glued to me begging for more. He doesn't appear to be very food motivated, but is very praise motivated.

 

There have been several incidences where Boo has shown fear aggression with strangers, mostly growling and/or barking. He snapped at my vet when he tried to give him his booster shot, but to my vet's credit, he didn't want to muzzle him, and instead called in his young female vet tech to hold and distract him so he did fine.

I took him to his first obedience class on Sat. with the hopes that it would put us in a controlled environment to work on his aggression issues. I was just barely able to hobble around in a circle for the better part of an hour. He was very good for the most part, ignoring the other people and dogs around us and focusing on me. He picks things up in the blink of an eye. The obedience instructor made the comment that he's obviously had some training (LOL-no more than he's had from me so far).

At one point the instructor went to offer him a treat and he growled at her (there was also one other instance of him growling at another participant). She admitted that was her own fault, that she shouldn't have approached him, but then she also instructed me to handle this by giving him a correction with the leash and tell him loudly and firmly "No". This advice is contrary to everything I've been reading in the thread below, and I'm afraid it may only reinforce his aggression. Should I run the other way from this "instructor" ?

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...t=010331#000001

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

I am not much help, I'm afraid, but with regard to an instructor you do not care for, you can try and just go to the class and then ignore instructions like that. That's what I did with Tess. I took her to a class and about halfway through the instructor was really irritated that Tess would not approach her. Her response was "Pull her up here! Don't let her get away with that!"

 

My dog takes hours and days to warm up to people. I know who she will approach based on their body language, and this woman's body language was not friendly towards Tess. My response to the instructor was "That approach is not one I want to use with my dog."

 

The instructor was not thrilled with this, but she obviously did not click with Tess so we never went back.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[jasper7777]

I have a border collie who sounds exactly like yours. Only he is almost 13. I am looking forward to reading the thread you posted. He was such a shy puppy he would freeze in place whenever any stranger petted him-- and as he got older it turned into growling. To tell you the truth-- I never was able to train Charlie out of his fear of strangers. One thing that was interesting with Charlie was-- he didn't growl at people who didn't want to pet him and ignored him-- it was the people who really wanted to pet him that he feared. Everytime someone comes to my house I tell them to ignore Charlie-- don't look at him - don't pet him. Charlie is not afraid of people who ignore him. I read that fear aggression is really just a natural instinct- and when people stare at a dog straight in the face it is like a preditor staring down prey- it triggers a natural fight or flight instinct in shy dogs.

If someone ignores Charlie he will go up to them and want to be petted eventually. But while they pet him- in the beginning he growls and wags his tail at the same time. Then he accepts them after that.

 

I am not sure about what your trainer told you about the leash correction. I think I saw an episode of the dog whisperer where he instructed people to do the same. I read about that method in several books and did try that with Charlie a long time ago-- I don't know if its wrong- but it never worked- he just keeps growling. I think telling him a command like sit, or shake helps-- takes his mind off the anxiety of someone trying to pet him.

[Sue R]

Jasper7777 - What you describe is so very much like my Celt and your advice is right on for dealing with him in these situations.

 

When folks display an "interest" in Celt, he often gets anxious, so I tell people to ignore him. When they do, especially as Megan fawns all over them and they interact with her, he "comes around" to sniff and check them out, and usually winds up wagging his tail, happily accepting petting, and sometimes becoming very accepting and friendly.

 

The more enthused a stranger is to greet Celt, the more nervous and reluctant he is to be approached or touched. The more casual or disinterested they seem, the more comfortable he is. Once he makes a friend, he's generally fine with that person in the future.

 

Our instructors where I assist never encourage leash corrections, tight leashes, or anything that might let the dog think that a person or another dog is a potentially "dangerous" or scary situation. They train handlers to refocus the dog's attention on his/her handler, to turn away from the tension/stranger/dog and redirect, to encourage low-key, low-stress, "ho-hum" greetings, and to keep the lead slack so as to not "telegraph" tension to the dog.

 

Celt seems to take to occasional people immediately but with most folks, it takes some ignoring him until he warms up first. Megan, on the other hand, considers no one to be a stranger but just a long-lost friend. Her attitude does help reduce tension in Celt when greeting new and old friends.

 

I must also admit that there are occasions and times when I do use a correction with Celt, when I don't feel the above alternatives are "working" or suitable for the situation - when I'm just not "getting through" to him or he's not responding to a more positive approach. Those generally occur outside, in field or working settings rather than indoors.

[jasper7777]

Its good to read posts about others who have shy dogs-- because people who have happy out going dogs just don't understand how different shy dogs are. Sometimes when Charlie is being shy he shakes-- and people ask me if someone ever beat him. Or they think if they just try harder to pet him -- he will become cured.

 

On a positive note-- I do have a book by a dog trainer-- and she had a very shy dog that she eventually trained into an obedience champion-- and she trained him out of his shyness enough so that she was able to take him to rest homes and have all the elderly people pet him.

 

I do think there is something special about shy dogs.

I actually have two dogs-- Charlie is the extremely shy one--

and Chloe is extremely friendly-- and loves everyone she sees.

I like that I can share Chloe with other people, and I don't have to worry about her snapping at a little kid who runs up to her

But.... Charlie will always be my favorite-- with his shyness there is a sensitivity that Chloe doesnt have-- he seems wiser and he's easier to handle train-- stays right next to me when I walk him without a lead and always did-even when he was a puppy. He lets me know he's my dog. Chloe on the other hand loves me but loves everyone else too- she would go home with anyone- and I'm not sure she would miss me.

[jasper7777]

I found a website on shy K9s might be helpful to you.

 

http://www.goof.com/~pmurphy/shy-k9s-faq.html

 

it also seems like there is a shy K9 newsletter.

 

Cheers

[nancy in AZ]

Just out of curiosity, was Charlie initially shy with you when you first got him? Other than his obvious fear and confusion on the day I first found him abandoned in the national forest, Boo has always been very friendly and sweet with me.