Training or Playing With Toys

[DTrain]

I just read an old post and I have lost track of it. A member was told by a stock dog trainer not to allow her young dogs to play with toys. I believe one of his reasons was something about the dog would not develop good eye or whatever. Other members disagreed with this trainer. Another member made a comment that he did not want the hassle of playing with his dogs. I disagree with him and the trainer. Play is essential for a dogs development and that includes future stock dogs. If this trainer would take the time to know wild canines he would know that play is what brings them to be the great hunters and pack members they need to be. I have worked with wild canines and I have had the great pleasure of watching how young dogs develop. I have worked with swift foxes in western Canada. Young wild canines will play with anything, rocks, sticks, mice etc. and all this play is developing eye, reflex, hunting instict etc. I have watched adult wild canines bring objects to there young to play with. I have a male stock dog who was trained by a well known and top breeder. This dog has worked ranches on sheep, cows and bulls. He works geese with me and he is a great trials dog. He plays with toys, balls, frisbees etc. and I play with him and my other dogs every dog. I have a young dog who loves to play, chase the laser light. He plays ball, he plays frisbee and I am begiining to train him on stock. He is the most agile and quick witted dog I have ever worked with and he is going to be a great stock and goose dog. When my dogs work, they work. When they play, they play. There is nothing to suggest that playing with toys has a negative effect on a stock dog in any fashion, this is silly. Let your dogs play, give them toys, let them develop, train them well and have fun.

[Little Bo Boop]

No problems with letting working dogs play with toys IMHO, however I would strongly adivse against allowing a Border Collie to play with a laser light, that can quickly turn into a nightmare habit and can also lead to shadow chasing, another annoying habit. Trust me, you don't want to have to deal with that.

 

 

Betty

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Yes, it might be a problem for one person, but even non-Border Collies can develop light obsessions. The problem with laser lights is that the dog can't easily tell it comes from you. A ball, they can see the ball in your hand, know if they bring it back it starts the game again, it's all in their control. The randomness of the light chasing game is too similar to naturally occurring light.

 

I don't think play is essential above a certain age. I myself enjoy walks with my youngsters and it's a good time to learn manners. But I don't teach fetching games or in fact anything before they've reached a certain level in livestock work. It's just my personal preference. I don't see how there would be any way to know for sure whether any particular dog might be "spoiled" by offering games before that point.

 

Anyway, I got a bit distracted there. What I was going to say was that, I know many trainers who do not "play" with their dogs and they mature just fine. The part of a puppy's mind that requires play stimulation is pretty much set by five or six months, and that's the age that most working trainers "put up" their youngsters. Before that age, repetitive exercises such as fetching games, are very unhealthy. After that age, the stimulation is uneccesary and I think it's distracting enough that I don't think it's worth it.

 

I wait until my dogs have learned to work at about the pronovice level (ahem, well, I've only raised two to this level so far, and Ted's the only one I'd consider "So far so good"). Then they are past the hardest training pressures and pretty much all the monkeys have fallen out from behind the curtains in terms of identifying any training issues. At that point I'll start playing. I like teaching water retrieval - it's a nice way to cool off. Chasing the water from the hose is similarly handy in hot weather. No frisbee - I've seen too many injuries (not my own dogs, others).

[juliepoudrier]

I'm sure I replied the same way on the previous thread, but I allow my dogs to play and it hasn't seemed to affect their work ethic or their ability to be trained to a high level. I think moderation is the key. I am more worried about dogs injuring themselves when playing fetch, etc., than I am about them being "ruined" for work. I would never, ever use anything like a laser light though. When I have youngsters, our main mode of play is tug and a little bit of fetch/chase, especially if they can fetch/chase into water like a pond, because swimming is low impact. I allow them to play with one another and we take plenty of long walks. Like all methods of dog training, a wide spectrum of opinions exist on play and toys, with some folks at either extreme and the majority somewhere in the middle. Do what feels right to you (but leave the laser light alone unless you have a desire to create compulsive light and shadow chasing).

 

J.