Ninso Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 So I have incorporated the clicker a little bit into the training I have done, but I have never managed to "free shape" anything. Lok understands that the clicker means he did something right and gets a treat, and it has helped to mark behaviors that I am luring, etc. Every time I try to free shape, though, he has seemed to just get confused and, doesn't seem to get why I'm not telling him what to do, and gives up very quickly and just lays down and stares at me. We just started agility and as a foundational thing, the instructor wanted us to teach the dogs to "touch" a square of duct tape with their paw, first on our hand, and then lowering to the ground, and eventually just the square on the ground. Well, I've been trying to teach this for a couple weeks and having no success (he knew "paw" before and can't understand that we are changing it). So I decided last night to try something else. I put a 5"x5" square of duct tape on my floor and I started clicking for looking at it, walking towards it etc. I had in the past somewhat started to shape him to pick up objects on the floor, so he started to rip at it a little bit with his teet, and I even clicked him for that. I stopped clicking him for that shortly after because it wasn't what I wanted, and sure enough, he gave up and layed down. I just kept watching TV and waited for him to get up and try again. He did. I clicked him for walking toward the square. Then he was just kind of standing by it and I clicked him for moving his front feet. Suddenly, he very slowly and deliberately raised a paw and placed it in the middle of the square. It was not the kind of frantic, frustrated behaviors he usually tries to "offer" when I try free shaping, and it wasn't accidental either. It was deliberate, thought through. I was exstatic! Click, jackpot, praise! Then he did it three more times! Then I ended the session. I think he finally gets the concept of shaping. The look on his face of "Oh! Is this what you wanted?" was so cool! I just hope it sticks when we try it again tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 That's fantastic isn't it!!! I am pretty sure it will stick they are smart dogs. I haven't tried free shaping because Daisy gets !!!!SO EXCITED!!!! when I have the clicker in my hand that she gets very, very frustrated with me. If I just stand there she will literally do EVERY trick she knows over and over. It's actually quite funny. Sit, Backup, sit, shake, high five, backup, spin left, spin right get mad and laydown. But that look on their faces is priceless when the actually "Get it" for the first time!!! j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echoskybound Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 That's fantastic isn't it!!! I am pretty sure it will stick they are smart dogs. I haven't tried free shaping because Daisy gets !!!!SO EXCITED!!!! when I have the clicker in my hand that she gets very, very frustrated with me. If I just stand there she will literally do EVERY trick she knows over and over. It's actually quite funny. Sit, Backup, sit, shake, high five, backup, spin left, spin right get mad and laydown. But that look on their faces is priceless when the actually "Get it" for the first time!!! j lol, that's hilarious! My boyfriend has a cockerspaniel/poodle mix who does that. He was trying to teach him to heel with treats in his hand, and he was rolling around and jumping desperately to get a treat, lol. My BC is three years old and I've never used a clicker with him, but I'm reluctant to start because I think it might confuse him, but I never thought about how excited they get when they just see the clicker... so that kinda makes me feel better about not using one ;] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 That's a great story - reminds me of the "miracle at the well" in "The Miracle Worker." Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewie'sMom Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 That's a great story - reminds me of the "miracle at the well" in "The Miracle Worker." Mary Good analogy, Mary! Don'cha just love it when the light bulb comes on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 That is a great analogy! I'll never forget when it "clicked" for Dean. It really was like the lines of communication were suddenly open between us. It was amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 lol, that's hilarious! My boyfriend has a cockerspaniel/poodle mix who does that. He was trying to teach him to heel with treats in his hand, and he was rolling around and jumping desperately to get a treat, lol. My BC is three years old and I've never used a clicker with him, but I'm reluctant to start because I think it might confuse him, but I never thought about how excited they get when they just see the clicker... so that kinda makes me feel better about not using one ;] I wouldn't worry about how old the dog is too much, Daisy is 3 and I've only been using a clicker for about 6 months, and I think my whole shake a paw saga (it took 2 months to teach) would have been WAY easier if I had used a clicker. It wasn't confusing, it made a huge breakthrough like Root Beer said, the lines of communication opened up way more, now she understands when I click, she was doing the right thing. She's mostly excited-happy cause "It's learnin' time", and becuase she likes it, nothing bad aobut that! Have you had anymore breakthroughs Ninso?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted May 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Have you had anymore breakthroughs Ninso?? Not yet. For the next few days I just worked on solidifying what we were doing--he knew right what to do the next time I got the clicker out. I am now at the point where I can use a small piece of duct tape anywhere on the floor and he go step on it when I say "step." I was working on "bow" at the same time, so sometimes he will step on it and then bow, silly boy. My next shaping project, I think, is going to be lifting his back feet. When I wash his feet off if he gets dirty outside he will lift his front paws for me to dry off when I say "paw" and then "other one," but he hates me picking up his back feet, so I'd like to work on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 That can be a tough one. You might start off by teaching him to touch each back foot to a board on the ground and put that on cue and then make that into a cued lift of each foot by holding the board higher to teach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 That's great that he remembered! Sometimes Daisy will try to show me her nose (touch to my hand) when I tell her to spin. She really likes that one and get super excited! So I can understand how he would try to bow and step at the same time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted May 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Thanks for the tip Kristine. Speaking of "bow" do any of your dogs know this trick? What command do you use for it? I think he is getting "bow" mixed up with "down." He will bow with his front end, then just lower his back end to the ground. I'm trying to counter this by rewarding him in a standing position, and it seems to be working ok, but I still think the two commands sound too similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 I use "stretch" for the bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted May 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Stretch! That's perfect! Why didn't I think of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 I changed it when Speedy, in his grand finale from Rally-O, sunk into an elaborate stretch/bow instead of a moving down! Such a scamp! Bow and down do sound too much alike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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