how to push a young dog out

[bcnewe2]

I have a wonderful little pup who's coming along nicely. I own her brother (different litter) who's my main partner. He has no problems with running wide and sometimes I wish he would feel the sheep better and not give so much distance on his outruns. I really think I caused this issue when I was just starting him.

 

I think I was way to mechanical with him. I remember trying to push him out on his flanks when he was a youngster. I also remember that it didn't work. What worked for him is moving to AR with big spaces and him learning to get off pressure because the work I was asking for called for him to be way off. He was feeling his sheep when he learned to give so much ground.

Now...with Dew, she's coming along way easier because I think I've learned to use the sheep more than my mouth for training. I was working her this morning and found myself wanting to push her out a bit on her flanks. But before I started training this morning I took her to look for sheep out in the woods. I was on a 4 wheeler going up a road. She spotted the sheep way before I did and I watched her head way off into the woods, it was then I noticed sheep up ahead a ways on the road. By the time I got to them she had come in behind them and was quietly moving them towards me. So in that situation I think she was properly giving the distance we needed.

Question is when working her in a training situation she's tighter. Not bad, but tighter than I think is right.

Should I just let her keep learning to read pressure and setting up situations that will make her feel like she needs to be off the sheep more or should I try pushing her off with body pressure too?

 

She is about 1 1/2 years old and a slow maturing wee one. I still see lots of puppy come out when she gets in over her head but each time out on stock it diminishes a bit more.

 

TIA

Kristen

[JW]

I have a wonderful little pup who's coming along nicely. I own her brother (different litter) who's my main partner. He has no problems with running wide and sometimes I wish he would feel the sheep better and not give so much distance on his outruns. I really think I caused this issue when I was just starting him.

 

I think I was way to mechanical with him. I remember trying to push him out on his flanks when he was a youngster. I also remember that it didn't work. What worked for him is moving to AR with big spaces and him learning to get off pressure because the work I was asking for called for him to be way off. He was feeling his sheep when he learned to give so much ground.

Now...with Dew, she's coming along way easier because I think I've learned to use the sheep more than my mouth for training. I was working her this morning and found myself wanting to push her out a bit on her flanks. But before I started training this morning I took her to look for sheep out in the woods. I was on a 4 wheeler going up a road. She spotted the sheep way before I did and I watched her head way off into the woods, it was then I noticed sheep up ahead a ways on the road. By the time I got to them she had come in behind them and was quietly moving them towards me. So in that situation I think she was properly giving the distance we needed.

Question is when working her in a training situation she's tighter. Not bad, but tighter than I think is right.

Should I just let her keep learning to read pressure and setting up situations that will make her feel like she needs to be off the sheep more or should I try pushing her off with body pressure too?

 

She is about 1 1/2 years old and a slow maturing wee one. I still see lots of puppy come out when she gets in over her head but each time out on stock it diminishes a bit more.

 

Your question is a tough one to answer without seeing the dog. You're probably right that you don't need to be asking for more space on outruns. However clean flanks don't have a lot to do with proper distance on outruns. When I start pups, one of the first things I do as they're learning that I'm the focal point, is to ask for clean flanks. I'm not talking about pushing the dog out, just putting enough pressure on to get square flanks. Every time I block the pup to get it to change direction, I step toward it, or use my hat or my training stick(depending on the dog) to get it to turn from where it is(as opposed to coming in closer to the sheep as it turns). I hope I'm answering what you're asking. Anyway, try working close at hand and asking for square flanks every time she turns. Let me know if this helps and if this is what you wanted to know!?

[bcnewe2]

Your question is a tough one to answer without seeing the dog. You're probably right that you don't need to be asking for more space on outruns. However clean flanks don't have a lot to do with proper distance on outruns. When I start pups, one of the first things I do as they're learning that I'm the focal point, is to ask for clean flanks. I'm not talking about pushing the dog out, just putting enough pressure on to get square flanks. Every time I block the pup to get it to change direction, I step toward it, or use my hat or my training stick(depending on the dog) to get it to turn from where it is(as opposed to coming in closer to the sheep as it turns). I hope I'm answering what you're asking. Anyway, try working close at hand and asking for square flanks every time she turns. Let me know if this helps and if this is what you wanted to know!?

 

We'll work on squaring her flanks when she's starting. I'm not sure if that's going to help with this particular issue but ya never know till you try and it sure can't hurt. I think it might be as you said that I'm not her focal point as much as I could be.

 

It's so hard to talk about training without seeing the dog work.

I'll let you know how squaring her flanks a bit affects the rest of her outrun.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Kristen