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stopping at the top for the lift.


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I have a dog ( BC ) that I bought as a trained dog 4 yrs ago. She was running in nursery? if I remember right when I bought her, and Im prety sure she ran in open a couple of times with a veteran handler. I bought her to help with my stock, and to learn how to handle a stock dog, but not to trial. However, I would like to start trialing this dog, and feel that she has all the qualities that will make her a good trial dog. She has been working at the farm with me since I got her, and I have allowed her to get..... away with some things, as they werent important to me until now, and am wondering if or how I can correct this problem. She really only has this one that I can see, but its kind of a biggie. When at home, and I send her to gather up the sheep, I havent insisted that she stop at the top to lift the sheep. Ive only asked that she get them. She is pretty pushy and will bring them right along, some times a bit to fast. But she will slow it down or steady if I tell her to. She still keeps a nice distance off, and has nice wide outruns of however far off the sheep are. I think it is required? that a dog stop at the top before the lift? and need her to start doing that again. She use to do it, but I wasnt looking for perfection, just wanted the sheep so I allowed her to stop, stopping as she came in behind them, and just allowed her to bring them. Now Id like to get her ready to trial, and wonder how I should go about getting her to lie down at the top. I have tried to tell her to when I see that she is just getting to the top, and then ask her to stop, but she has been not having to for so long now, that she just ignors the command. ( thinking she knows what I want, as we have done it so many times before) I am wondering if working her in a smaller area so that I have closer contact with her will help. Or, I have had to a few times, set up a situation with her, when she tried to cross over where I set her up at one end of the feild, then I walked down to the sheep or closer to them to stop her from crossing over. That seemed to have done the trick for that particular problem, but havent started to work on this one yet, and would like to have more than one plan when I do. She stops on command during other work, just not before the lift. Suggestions would be helpful. Thank you.

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I have a dog ( BC ) that I bought as a trained dog 4 yrs ago. She was running in nursery? if I remember right when I bought her, and Im prety sure she ran in open a couple of times with a veteran handler. I bought her to help with my stock, and to learn how to handle a stock dog, but not to trial. However, I would like to start trialing this dog, and feel that she has all the qualities that will make her a good trial dog. She has been working at the farm with me since I got her, and I have allowed her to get..... away with some things, as they werent important to me until now, and am wondering if or how I can correct this problem. She really only has this one that I can see, but its kind of a biggie. When at home, and I send her to gather up the sheep, I havent insisted that she stop at the top to lift the sheep. Ive only asked that she get them. She is pretty pushy and will bring them right along, some times a bit to fast. But she will slow it down or steady if I tell her to. She still keeps a nice distance off, and has nice wide outruns of however far off the sheep are. I think it is required? that a dog stop at the top before the lift? and need her to start doing that again. She use to do it, but I wasnt looking for perfection, just wanted the sheep so I allowed her to stop, stopping as she came in behind them, and just allowed her to bring them. Now Id like to get her ready to trial, and wonder how I should go about getting her to lie down at the top. I have tried to tell her to when I see that she is just getting to the top, and then ask her to stop, but she has been not having to for so long now, that she just ignors the command. ( thinking she knows what I want, as we have done it so many times before) I am wondering if working her in a smaller area so that I have closer contact with her will help. Or, I have had to a few times, set up a situation with her, when she tried to cross over where I set her up at one end of the feild, then I walked down to the sheep or closer to them to stop her from crossing over. That seemed to have done the trick for that particular problem, but havent started to work on this one yet, and would like to have more than one plan when I do. She stops on command during other work, just not before the lift. Suggestions would be helpful. Thank you.

 

 

Stopping at the top is not a requirement. A lot of handlers, myself included, prefer to let their dog manage the top. If allowed to, most good dogs are quite proficient at it. To me, there is nothing better than watching a dog find balance, and softly lift in the exact direction of the handler. That being said, in order to be really competative, your dog must be able to take direction at any point. There will be times when your dog must take direction at the top. A good example is this year's national finals, where the fetch in the first go-round was a dog leg. In order to get full points on the lift, the dog needed to stop short and lift the sheep toward the fetch gates.

So, to work on getting a stop at the top, shorten up your outruns, so that you are close enough to effectively put pressure on your dog when you ask for a stop and don't get it. Be sure that you allow her to turn in at balance before asking her to stop. Send her fifty yards. When she turns in at balance, ask for the stop, while at the same time, walking or running directly toward her. As soon as she stops, take pressure off, by backing up, or at least stopping your forward motion. Let her fetch the sheep to you. Next time, send her fifty yards again. Stop her in the same way. Now ask her to flank a few yards in either direction. Stop her again and then flank her back to balance. Next time, allow her to lift on her own. If she is lifting too quickly, take a few steps toward her and remind her to steady up. When you get a change of pace, again take the pressure off by backing up. Mix these up during your training sessions. They will help keep her flexible and help you with control. When she is doing well at all three types of lifts, begin to lengthen your outruns. If you start to loose control at any distance, shorten the outrun back up.

Let me know how it goes.

 

Jeanne

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Thank you Jeanne, I will apply those methods and let ya know how we fair. You said that stopping at the top is not required, so then you dont get points off when they dont stop? This may not be such a bad thing then after all? As she can lift the sheep nicely, as long as I remind her to steady up her pace as she comes around to the top to bring them on for the fetch. Would a steady whistle at the top count as a redirect and cost points, or would that be a call for the judge to make? Darci

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Thank you Jeanne, I will apply those methods and let ya know how we fair. You said that stopping at the top is not required, so then you dont get points off when they dont stop? This may not be such a bad thing then after all? As she can lift the sheep nicely, as long as I remind her to steady up her pace as she comes around to the top to bring them on for the fetch. Would a steady whistle at the top count as a redirect and cost points, or would that be a call for the judge to make? Darci

 

As long as your dog lifts softly and in your diretion, you should get no points off the lift. A steady whistle should be no pts. off, unless you give it before the outrun is completed. You can give the whistle when the dog turns in at the top, or as she lifts or after she lifts. Just not before. Any commands while the dog is outrunning will be point/s off.

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Thank you again Jeanne. We worked yesterday, and things didnt go so well. She seemed upset? confused? about the new way of doing things, and I wished Id have had time this evening, but got out of work to late to do anything. But, tomorrow is another day, and Im off work so maybe we'll get it together better then. She is 7 yrs old, and we have been doing things pretty much the same for so long, I suspect she will be to some degree confused, dog-gruntled, and as of last nights work, even a bit disobediant. But her best attribute is that she wants to stay with the sheep and work, so I will be using that to the utmost of my advantage. Darci

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Thank you again Jeanne. We worked yesterday, and things didnt go so well. She seemed upset? confused? about the new way of doing things, and I wished Id have had time this evening, but got out of work to late to do anything. But, tomorrow is another day, and Im off work so maybe we'll get it together better then. She is 7 yrs old, and we have been doing things pretty much the same for so long, I suspect she will be to some degree confused, dog-gruntled, and as of last nights work, even a bit disobediant. But her best attribute is that she wants to stay with the sheep and work, so I will be using that to the utmost of my advantage. Darci

 

 

If she's getting confused, try shortening things up a whole bunch. Work on off balance flanking and stopping off balance, mixing it up with letting her go to balance and sometimes stopping and sometimes letting her lift the sheep on her own. Work with quiet sheep, with dog in a circle around you and the sheep. Try to remain positive and don't loose your patience. For you and her, this is almost like learning it for the first time. Don't work on it too long at a time. After, send her on an outrun and let her lift on her own. In other words, try to keep her attitude positive, too.

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Yes Jeanne, it seems to be very much like learning all over again. Its a plus for me, that as long as she is out there with the sheep, her attitude is good, even when I call her off and the work is done, she is happy to come off with me. So attitude I dont think will be a problem. Quiet sheep? The ones I am using right now, are a little over yearling ewes that had very little dog work until recently, and although they arent suited for the younger dogs(yet) she seems to be getting them dogged pretty quickly, and doesnt loose them or allow them to scatter, though they can speed up pretty fast if she gets a bit to pushy on the fetch, so we're working on keeping better pace as well. It seems when I started this question, that I thought we only had one really important thing to work on, and that was the stop at the top, now, as we have been doing that, I am finding several other facets of her training that I have allowed to get sloppy, and in doing so, am finding that I am working on all sorts of things all at once. Its hard not to try to correct something while working on another thing, and am wondering now, if we should just stick to a single program, and get her solid on that, before correcting other flaws Im noticing along the way. How much is too much? I dont want our working sessions to turn into correction sessions, else we may loose that nice attitude. Thank you, Darci

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Yes Jeanne, it seems to be very much like learning all over again. Its a plus for me, that as long as she is out there with the sheep, her attitude is good, even when I call her off and the work is done, she is happy to come off with me. So attitude I dont think will be a problem. Quiet sheep? The ones I am using right now, are a little over yearling ewes that had very little dog work until recently, and although they arent suited for the younger dogs(yet) she seems to be getting them dogged pretty quickly, and doesnt loose them or allow them to scatter, though they can speed up pretty fast if she gets a bit to pushy on the fetch, so we're working on keeping better pace as well. It seems when I started this question, that I thought we only had one really important thing to work on, and that was the stop at the top, now, as we have been doing that, I am finding several other facets of her training that I have allowed to get sloppy, and in doing so, am finding that I am working on all sorts of things all at once. Its hard not to try to correct something while working on another thing, and am wondering now, if we should just stick to a single program, and get her solid on that, before correcting other flaws Im noticing along the way. How much is too much? I dont want our working sessions to turn into correction sessions, else we may loose that nice attitude. Thank you, Darci

 

 

You're right. Attitude and confidence must be preserved. Try to stay positive, and don't throw too much at her at once.

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