TaliC2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Hammie finally met the sheep yesterday. It was awesome! It was much more than I expected. The trainer, Bridget, who I liked very much, had me lead Hammie, still on leash, to a large pen of about 6 sheep. When we got about a quarter of the way in, she had me release him and he went straight for the sheep, who were now running towards the other end of the pen, and started herding them just like he knew exactly what he was supposed to do. It was amazing. He had no hesitation with them and no fear of them. Once in a while, she said it was because he felt like he was losing control of them, he would herd them into a corner of the pen and then he wasn't sure how to get them back out as he woudn't go between them and the pen. She said that was probably because of fear to go between the two. Overall, he did great and he had the best time. He never quit one time to rest, or go and say hello to 3 Great Pyr's on the other side of the pen, or anything. He never got distracted and when Bridget called him off, he stopped. She did have to call him a few times once, and rather strongly at that, but that was the only time. Also, not sure what it is called, but when the sheep were moving up the pen, he ran large circles around them to keep them together, and she had him change directions a couple of times and he did that great. She said that for an 8 month old pup and for his first time he did great. We are going to start taking some "easy" lessons every Sat. starting the 13th of Oct. I don't know if we will ever get to competition level, but after seeing how much fun my puppy had with the sheep I can't deny him these new toys. I also liked the trainer, Bridget, very much. She explained what she was going to do once inside the pen, asked me if I had any questions, had me come into the pen with them (that is why there are no pictures. I took a camera but was too busy watching out for sheep and staying out of Bridget and Hammie's way to take any shots.) and she really worked with Hammie well. Then, when we were done, she explained everything that had just happened. Explained what Hammie was doing at different times. I felt very comfortable with her and not too intimidated. So, there is the update. I am SO glad I did this. My dog was in heaven and I can't wait to go back. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's so cool. Yesterday was the day my dog saw sheep for the first time - I will post pictures shortly. Yay to new beginings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 We are going to start taking some "easy" lessons every Sat. starting the 13th of Oct. I don't know if we will ever get to competition level, but after seeing how much fun my puppy had with the sheep I can't deny him these new toys. Hi Tammy, I am really glad that you and Hammie had so much fun. But sheep are not your dog's toys. Please have a little respect for the livestock you are hoping to train your dog on. They are living, breathing beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliC2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Hi Tammy,I am really glad that you and Hammie had so much fun. But sheep are not your dog's toys. Please have a little respect for the livestock you are hoping to train your dog on. They are living, breathing beings. You know, I debated rather or not to put it that way thinking someone might take it wrong. It sure didn't take long! heh. I was just trying to express how much my dog thoroughly enjoyed being with the sheep and since he is a toy freak... Of course I have respect for the sheep. They are adorable and I loved being around them and was able to pet and love on a couple of them. I know they are not toys and that this is serious stuff for both the sheep and my dog as it could be a little dangerous to both. So if anyone else takes it wrong too, please don't. It was just an apparent bad choice of words. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliC2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's so cool. Yesterday was the day my dog saw sheep for the first time - I will post pictures shortly. Yay to new beginings! Oh awesome. I bet Ouzo looked great out there with the sheep since he looks great doing everything else I can't wait to see the pictures. I want to know how you were able to take them? You must be an ultra talented multi-tasker! Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Tammy, I had Chris with me plus I wasn't in the pen more than a few minutes for the first session. The instructor was in with him by herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 I do understand that you meant no disrespect, Tammy, and it's a classic newbie faux pas. But even though this is a fun adventure for you, it should never be seen as a "game" for your dog (or you, ideally). To do so would be a great disservice to all involved and, even if you may not think so now, will probably have some impact on how you allow your dog to approach the sheep and stockwork in general. Taking it seriously from the start engenders respect to your dog, the stock, and others for whom stockwork is an essential aspect of their lives. (And if you think that sounds a bit grandiose, you'll be glad to know I edited out stuff about the history of the breed and centuries-old tradition of working stock with border collies .) That said, it sounds like Hammie probably has lots of talent, desire, and bidability, so I bet you'll both have a great time learning to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliC2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 I do understand that you meant no disrespect, Tammy, and it's a classic newbie faux pas. But even though this is a fun adventure for you, it should never be seen as a "game" for your dog (or you, ideally). To do so would be a great disservice to all involved and, even if you may not think so now, will probably have some impact on how you allow your dog to approach the sheep and stockwork in general. Taking it seriously from the start engenders respect to your dog, the stock, and others for whom stockwork is an essential aspect of their lives. (And if you think that sounds a bit grandiose, you'll be glad to know I edited out stuff about the history of the breed and centuries-old tradition of working stock with border collies .) That said, it sounds like Hammie probably has lots of talent, desire, and bidability, so I bet you'll both have a great time learning to work! Yep, I am definitely a newbie, Laurae. This is my first Border Collie and yesterday was my first experience with sheep so I am a little giddy and excited about my experience. I actually appreciate your comments. I don't see it as a game for my dog, but I do see it as something fun that my dog and I can do together. And, I see it as a great challenge for both of us (mostly me) and a lot of hard work. I am really looking forward to it and I do take it seriously. Also, just in case you feel like posting it, I love reading about the history of the breed, and would love reading about the tradition of working stock with Border Collies, so post away if you have the time. I promise you I will read it. thanks, Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 What Laurae said A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I agree with Laurae, too, but I also see where Tammy is coming from. It's pretty damn exciting for a newbie to get out there and feel what she felt when she saw her pup with the sheep. So, anyway, I think everyone is on the same page, right? So I'll just say I'm happy for you, Tammy! It *is* fun and rewarding for both of you. I'm glad Hammie did well and that you're continuing with lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliC2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Thanks Paula. It was very exciting and I can't wait to go back and actually start learning! And again, I apologize to all for sounding flippant. Not my intention, just a poor choice of words. I hope we are all on the same page because I am going to have a million questions for you all as I start to learn and I really do value and appreciate the advice (even when it comes in the form of a spanking) that I get here. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red russel Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Tammy, welcome to the stock dog world. Glad you and your pup are enjoying yourselves. May you have many more hours of fun. While there are a number of people that make a living training, breeding, and competing with Border Collies that number is relatively small. For the rest of us we train, work, and compete with our dogs because we enjoy it and our dogs enjoy it. Not because it is serious business and we are saving the world. To suggest that stockdog trials are any more than a recreational activity (game) seems a bit self indulgent. It isn't brain surgery and most of us aren't Mother Teresa. You and your dog should treat your sheep right. I'm sure you will. Sheep aren't toys and I'm also sure you know that as well. Those of us that have them go through quite a bit of energy and expense keeping them healthy, safe, and happy (however sheep happen to define happiness) If you don't know how, there are lots of people that will help you. I've been fortunate enough to have a mentor that just ignores me when I say something non sheep PC. She makes sure I'm heading in the right direction but stays off her soap box while she's doing it. I'm hoping you find one as well. Cheers, dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Dave, I'm glad you have a great mentor who stays of the soapbox and refrains from correcting you when you are politically incorrect. But please remember that this forum has many, many members and it wouldn't serve us well if we allowed flippant remarks about livestock to stand uncorrected/uncontested. It's hard enough to take care of livestock with dogs nowadays, given all the political movements to curtail dog ownership, etc., (not to mention the AR crazies) so please forgive some of us for being what you seem to think is overly sensitive to the perceptions people have of livestock. I think we know that for many folks stockdog trials are simply a competition (that's why the term "hobby herding" was coined after all), but it doesn't change the fact that they have a basis in real-life livestock management, and that management is supposed to be for the benefit of the *stock* as well as the human (and that the stock really have no say in the venture). There are still plenty of folks who put proper stock management ahead of the "game" of trialing. I don't make money trialing (not usually anyway), nor do I give lessons or train other people's dogs, but I do raise sheep, and I do my utmost to keep them healthy, productive, and in stress-free conditions. The sheep are not there just for the dogs; the dogs are there to help me manage my sheep and I do expect to make money off the sheep (that is, they aren't just there for dog training). No one is saying that we don't enjoy trialing (most of the time), but I think it pays to remember that the *sheep* probably do not enjoy trialing (after all, there's certainly nothing in it for them), and we really should keep their welfare in the forefront even as we pursue our individual goals regarding stockwork. In other words, it never hurts to remind folks that although we and our dogs might find working stock to be fun, the stock probably do not, and we should keep that in mind whenever we take our dogs out to work them. Tali, I'm thrilled that you've had a great start with Hamish. It sounds like he's got some talent, and you may find that you will be bitten by the trial bug too. But even if not, bringing out the best of your dog's potential is a worthy goal. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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