aggression at the vets-anyone else have it?

[SoloRiver]

I will add that as little handling as possible is best. Solo has never needed multiple personnel to control him at the vet because we just don't let that happen. Piling on is more likely to make him fight back.

 

If he'll need sedation, we go to some neutral area (like a hallway, or the sidewalk), I restrain him, and the vet comes alone and gives him the shot, and then retreats and leaves us alone until Solo's nice and sleepy. From Solo's perspective, nothing really happened during the visit because he doesn't remember anything, and he normally recovers very quickly with no lasting emotional trauma.

 

Needing to be sedated does add some time and cost to the vet visit, but it's better than freaking Solo out. Sedation is incompatible with some sorts of exams (opthalmalogical; neurological; etc.) but for the most part it works out fine. I try to stack up procedures too, to take advantage of sedation -- for example, I prefer for him to get his vaccinations while he's out cold if possible. That kind of thing.

 

I worry about what would happen if Solo needed to be hospitalized (he is a very poor candidate for hospitalization) but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[KJ]

I used to own and handle chow chows for other people, and this was the procedure we followed with the ones with issues - which was about 99% of them in those days. I found the more of the procedure I did without vet or staff putting their hands on the dog, the less stressful it was for everybody. Active owner/handler participation and a firm belief in better living through chemistry worked well for maniacal chowzillas.

 

It's not hard at all to give your own DHLP-P vaccinations. You just pinch up some skin and slip the needle in. It's not hard at all to give yourself DHLP-P vaccinations either, BTW. I for one will never contract distemper. Rabies, though is a little trickier - plus it doesn't do you any good to give the shot because, at least in SC, you have to show proof from a vet that it's been given. But rabies vacc's last 3 yrs so at least it's an infrequent trauma.

 

Oh, yeah - do I understand correctly, that your dog injured his neck and a vet tech was restraining him by putting pressure on his neck? I don't blame him for screaming at her!

 

Best of luck. I know how it feels to get expelled by the vet. And the kennel. And once in my case, actually, the neighborhood. But to paraphrase Lendon Gray, it's the difficult dogs that have the most to give you.

 

PART I

Regarding 'chemistry'...well we made a MASSIVE mistake with Shep. All along we have been using many drugs to handle this situation until I met a trainer who said she was willing to work directly with us and she would come to the vets with us and handle him. We had her to the house where she used what I called alpha theory, and she said it wasn't but it was working with the animals natural obedience....well after all my stacks of books, mostly positive training methods, this I had not heard of. She worked with Shep and a leash (I wouldn't let her use a choke) at our fence where he barks aggressively and charges. Besides being really loud it wouldn't be a bother except for that biting thing and liability so I really needed help getting him to come when he begins to go nuts. So she showed some real progress with him. She is an x canine cop. She had a great CAN DO energy so I thought, she's coming to the vets we need her help.

 

PART II

It was suggested I DO NOT go to the vets b/c it is always extremely upsetting and all I do is cry and upset everybody, Shep too. So my husband went with the trainer. She did NOT want him on any drugs. She didn't want to use a muzzle. She used a PRONG even tho I wouldn't let her use a choke at my house. I explained why (he had prior major collar issues) She strung him up multiple times, the vet had to watch to make sure his tounge didn't turn blue, the trainer was bit with lots of blood drawn 3x and all in all it was a TOTAL disaster. Fortunately it did not set back the last 3 years of work I had done. He was real sensitive about his collar for a week after but I think he was sore too. The vet called to say, she cried when she got home b/c she should've stopped the whole thing as it boardered on being inhumane.

 

SO -drugs are seriously on board and always will be. I finally don't feel like I am going to throw up thinking about what a bad choice we made.

 

 

Thanks for the SC shot idea...maybe I could do it. I feel so wimpy but I am afraid if I do that to him he will never trust even me. I'm just getting to the point where he doesn't snap when I put Frontline on him. Yes he is that sensitive.

[KJ]

Kim,

 

 

There are vets out there who will work with these dogs sympathetically rather than antagonistically. Find one.

 

 

Well I haven't called aorund this year but I called every vet in the DC/MD for the past 2 years even calling Marsha ____?__ who doesn't even do veterinary work anymore. I think we will stick with this vet for now. She is willing.

 

thanks

[KJ]

This is a tough situation to be in. I seriously question the statement "dogs don't really need that much vet care anyway" (was this a boarded veterinary behaviorist? If so, I'd find another one. If not, they're not qualified to make that kind of statement.) That's a pretty broad remark and I'd say by and large it's pretty misleading, and very often not true. At the very least, it's not really helpful; what do you do when it's clear you DO need medical care? That's really the issue, not how often it's needed, so I find that statement to be less than helpful.

 

Yep she is actually highly certified. If I just neglect care that he needs it gets to me...like now, his teeth are in such bad shape. Will they just ulcerate and he'll die of infection? What going to happen to his mouth?

 

 

Not being able to see him, it's very hard for me to advise you, but I'll outline our approach for such situations. We do see a number of agressive dogs here, some extremely agressive. My usual approach is to get in and get out as fast and easily as possible from the dog's point of view, putting as little pressure on them as I can and still get the job done. I generally have the owner muzzle the dog (which you already do), have the owner restrain the dog's head enough so I can get in and get a quick listen to the heart, give sedation appropriate to the procedure, and then leave the dog alone and stop messing with him until the meds take over (the owner stays with the dog during this part). Once the meds take effect I'm no longer terrifying the dog, so he feels better, the owner feels better, and we can proceed without risking serious career-ending inury to myself or my staff. I finish my physical exam with the dog asleep and I try to get everything done all at the same visit so the dog isn't in need of another visit right away. I often have the owner wait while the dog wakes up, or else have the dog back in a more secluded (therefore less-stressful) run before he recovers from anesthesia, and I have the owner go back and take the dog out of the cage, to minimize the amount of handling stress we put on him.

 

That's just what works for me... it doesn't mean it's the only way to go.

 

That's pretty much what we do. It's done outside too. In terms of the meds he gets alprozolam prior to the visit (4), then he gets dormitor and torbitol. He did come out of it one time which was astonishing. She gives him big dog amounts. He's only 48lbs. But the effects are seen for days after. I wish I could take a clinical view, do what needs to be done, just have all this courage but it's so so stressful. I am certain a part of the problem is me. Sehp senses my stress and then he gets doubly so. Next time, one alprozalam for him one for me, one for him, one for me and so on.

 

If you said you'd see I just may drive to Alaska. If this vet breaks up with us, maybe I will.

 

Thanks a lot