Terminal sires

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm putting this here because some of y'all have experience with not only the stock side of it, but also the dog side of it. What I'm doing right now is building my ewe flock, so the next couple of years of breeding is focused on that. I've got a Blue Leister (sp) right now and plan to add a Tunis ram next year.

 

I had planned to just go with the obvious, a Suffolk, as my terminal sire after that. Carcass quality wasn't a huge concern as my biggest market is raw feeders. I've found though, that the bigger the lamb I can grow on pasture, the more bang for my buck at processing time.

 

The recent talk about people not being able to find plain old commercial Suffolks here has me worried.

 

Alternatives? My lambs are pretty big and thrifty on pasture already, I just need that fast growth. They don't need to be HUGE, just an improvement over my ewes, which take a couple seasons to reach full size (but thrive on bare dirt, practically - not to mention heat, and their systems eat barberpole for breakfast).

 

NCCs? The Texels I tried were nice but tended to add muscle rather than just plain size, which makes a difference when your market wants bones just as much as meat. Ramboulliet? Columbia? I'm just drawing a blank.

 

I know this seems pretty far in the future but I like to line this stuff up pretty far in advance in case I get a chance to get a good deal on just what I'll need. That worked for the BlueL I've got out there now.

[Lenajo]

BFL rams haves been a good addition here to add frame size, milk and mothering. one of the few breeds I felt improved on my hair sheep in a positive manner without putting tons of belly and leg wool on the offspring.

 

The offspring out of the BFL have made solid production ewes for us. Greater than 1/2 though, and you get back to the unthrifty, "dies on a whim" BFL/purebred issues. I have given up on trying to maintain purebred BFL ewes - it's enough trouble to babysit the ram without having a flock of them.

 

The BFL/white hair cross (I call them Alabama Mules btw) crossed back to Dorper make superb market lambs for pasture feeding. The quality suits both my human and canine buyers. The growth is fast to about 90 lbs, then they level out and grow slow the rest of the year. That's small compared to feeder lambs from blackface breeders, but the meat quality is good and the customers like it. They have a better frame and loin than the straight dorper too.

 

Barberpole wrecked havoc on us this year - first year we've had it. I think we've pretty much settled down now.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm putting this here because some of y'all have experience with not only the stock side of it, but also the dog side of it. What I'm doing right now is building my ewe flock, so the next couple of years of breeding is focused on that. I've got a Blue Leister (sp) right now and plan to add a Tunis ram next year.

 

I had planned to just go with the obvious, a Suffolk, as my terminal sire after that. Carcass quality wasn't a huge concern as my biggest market is raw feeders. I've found though, that the bigger the lamb I can grow on pasture, the more bang for my buck at processing time.

 

The recent talk about people not being able to find plain old commercial Suffolks here has me worried.

 

Alternatives? My lambs are pretty big and thrifty on pasture already, I just need that fast growth. They don't need to be HUGE, just an improvement over my ewes, which take a couple seasons to reach full size (but thrive on bare dirt, practically - not to mention heat, and their systems eat barberpole for breakfast).

 

NCCs? The Texels I tried were nice but tended to add muscle rather than just plain size, which makes a difference when your market wants bones just as much as meat. Ramboulliet? Columbia? I'm just drawing a blank.

 

I know this seems pretty far in the future but I like to line this stuff up pretty far in advance in case I get a chance to get a good deal on just what I'll need. That worked for the BlueL I've got out there now.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm planning to move my ewes towards BFL/Tunis (we'll call them Tarheel purple mules, lol). I used hair rams (one Katadhin, one Dorper) my first four years and hated them. I can still pick out the ewes that came from the Katadhin line after four generations, and if the Dorper lambs managed not to die of barberpole, they stopped growing when the summer dry hot weather hit here.

 

How do the genetics of quick gain on pasture work? Is it something you can simply track, then breed for? In other words, with as much time as I'll have, I might also be able to breed my own ram? I saved a son of a terrific BL/Texel/Dorset ram, who ended up being saved as a ram by accident. What characteristics would I need to track in particular? Can I avoid keeping a whole bunch of rams around at once, going that route?

[Bill Fosher]

Hi Rebecca,

 

Your climate may be an issue that steers you toward a particular terminal sire. Personally, I think you're wise to stay away from US Suffolks unless there are some breeders of old-fashioned beasts out there. If there are, they seldom break cover.

 

If you plan to use the ram as a truly terminal sire -- that is, everything he fathers is going to end up on the rail -- questions about prolificacy and out of season breeding are less important than if you're going to use him as a dual purpose sire, keeping back some of his daughters as breeders.

 

Here are some breeds I would look at if I were you:

 

Texel -- but find yourself a truly massive ram. The next Texel ram I buy will have to be at least 250 lbs.

Ile de France -- again, look for a really big one.

Charollais -- damn Canadian border.

Shropshire -- if you can find one that isn't really a Suffolk or Hampshire.

 

The main reason to stay away from Suffolks and Hamps is that they have the frame but the few that are selected based on performance are generally selected for growth on concentrates, not forage.

 

If you want one that will serve both as a replacement sire and a ewe lamb sire, it's going to be pretty hard to beat a commercial Dorset. Some Tunis sheep will have similar traits to the Dorset, but they are much more inconsistent in my experience. These sheep won't give you the frame or muscling of a true terminal sire, but they do a good job of splitting the difference.

 

I don't think you're going to find many finewool breeds that will do well on Eastern pastures or that will handle humidity well.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I definitely agree about the Hamps and I've got some ewes that are slightly smaller but good producers. I knew a lady who crossed Hamps on Romanovs - swore by them but lambing season for her meant pulling lambs all night and feeding bummers all day, good grief.

 

I thought about Dorset and I sure do love them - and I have a superior and trustworthy source for them locally. But I'm not sure how they'd do on just pasture. That is a good thought to look into - then I could also keep any ewe lambs that struck my fancy. I'll have to ask the breeders I know about how they raise their lambs.

 

The climate here is almost Coastal, it's a real bear. My girls have done great but I'm really hitting the wall on growing out weanlings. It hurt a bit this year, especially with gas prices also cutting into the cost of processing/delivering animals. I'm not complaining though. With hay as scarce as it is, farmers are paying people to take their stock away - forget trying to make any money off them. OK, slight exaggeration, for now.

 

Ile de France - suuuuuuuurrrrre. I'll take a whole flock of 'em. I think these are seen much more commonly up north? In fact, I don't remember ever seeing any advertised around here or hearing of any breeders. We were able to get the Texel crosses from you that time because Patrick's company was paying him to drive to MA coincidentally.

 

Would you consider a Columbia a potential terminal sire breed in these circumstances? I've had a few of them before and liked how humble they were as sheep - kind of stupid but not inclined to run like mad from the dogs or fight over their lambs. There's a few of these around and seem to do fine, believe it or not - but I don't know whether the lambs would need feeding. I don't remember before - it was early on, when if the lambs were born without trouble and lived to adulthood, I felt I was ahead of the game.

[Bill Fosher]

I would put Columbia into the finewool department and recommend staying away from them in a humid climate. If you were hell bent to use Columbia, I'd recommend having them in the maternal mix, and even then no more than 25 percent. Columbia are everything that is wrong with show Dorsets: lower prolificacy, less milk, less maternal. The two main things they have going for them are frame size and wool.

 

IDF are not common, but are not hopelessly rare either. More importantly, they have sort of skipped the "every sperm is precious" stage that so many minor breeds go through. If I can't find the sort of Texel I'm looking for, my next terminal sire will be an IDF.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Who knew there were so many breeds of sheep! I learned my one thing for the day!

[Bill Fosher]

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/sheep/

[Lenajo]

I'm trying Ile De France now - in the form of 3/4 ILF/ 1/4 Dorset - they are all northern stock, but they were born in the South.

 

I am *not* impressed right now. They don't tolerate the heat as well as the rest of my flock by half, are very prone to the humidity related pneumonia, and all but stopped gaining weight (some even lost) when the heat got really bad.

 

I'm crossing them to Dorper in a month. We'll see what happens.