A question of position

[zenotri]

I have quite a broad question, I have heard different views on it & am curious to hear what you guys think...

 

Who is the judge of whether your dog is in the right position when working? You or the sheep?

 

As an example someone told me recently that my dog was in the wrong position on a fetch (she was not directly behind the sheep, but off to one side a little). The thing that confused me was that the sheep were moving in a straight line towards me. So if she was in the wrong spot...wouldn't they be moving along a different line?

 

Same with distance from the sheep etc, wouldn't the sheep be the judge?

 

I am not talking about knee hugging sheep who will go to the handler regardless of where the dog is, but normal sheep in a normal paddock.

 

I guess the real issue for me here is that I am no expert & I feel that most of the time my dog knows better than I do where she needs to be. I am hesitant to change her position whilever the sheep are moving in the right direction in a calm manner.

 

I am interested in people's opinions/experiences.

 

thanks

[juliepoudrier]

There is no requirement that the dog be behind the sheep when fetching. Often dogs with more eye will want to control the lead sheep, and this means the dog will be off to the side where it can catch the eye of that sheep. (I have a dog like this, and it was disconcerting at first, but I got used to it.) As long as the sheep are moving where you want them to go and in a straight line, it shouldn't matter where your dog is positioned (human viewpoint) relative to the sheep. In other words, the sheep are telling you whether the dog is correct, and if your fetch was on line and straight, then your dog was in a correct position. And you're right about distance from the sheep too. How close the dog needs to work depends on both the dog and the sheep's perception of the dog. There is no one correct distance off the sheep.

 

J.

[Lenajo]

Dogs don't have be behind, but I would look at the source of the comment in question before I ruled it out. Often with training sheep the dog doesn't have to be right, for the sheep to go right. If this was an experinced instructor ask them why they felt the dog wasn't right.

[zenotri]

There is no requirement that the dog be behind the sheep when fetching. Often dogs with more eye will want to control the lead sheep, and this means the dog will be off to the side where it can catch the eye of that sheep. (I have a dog like this, and it was disconcerting at first, but I got used to it.) As long as the sheep are moving where you want them to go and in a straight line, it shouldn't matter where your dog is positioned (human viewpoint) relative to the sheep. In other words, the sheep are telling you whether the dog is correct, and if your fetch was on line and straight, then your dog was in a correct position. And you're right about distance from the sheep too. How close the dog needs to work depends on both the dog and the sheep's perception of the dog. There is no one correct distance off the sheep.

 

Thank you Julie. I suspect that is exactly what my dog is doing, she has quite a bit of eye & is often off to the side, but the sheep are not zigzagging & often seem very accepting of where she is.

[zenotri]

Dogs don't have be behind, but I would look at the source of the comment in question before I ruled it out. Often with training sheep the dog doesn't have to be right, for the sheep to go right. If this was an experinced instructor ask them why they felt the dog wasn't right.

 

Yes I can see exactly what you are saying, hence my reference to knee hugging sheep. I agree too that the source of the comment is relevant, no they are not very experienced people who are making the comments, but they have learnt from experienced people. I suspect they are generalising something they have learnt & thinking it must apply to all situations, all sheep & all dogs.

 

Many of these people teach & force position on their dogs from day one, same as they teach a cast on a fenceline. I think some of these dogs never really learn to read their sheep. In my very novice opinion, I would say this is selling any dog with natural talent short.