Laurae Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 Hi all, Sorry, this is long. I can't ever seem to write for advice without feeling like I need to give every single detail. About two months ago, a friend of mine gave me her trained dog Craig, so I could perhaps learn to handle a dog a little faster. The idea was that I wouldn't have to concentrate on teaching this dog, as I am doing with my other (novice) dog Taz. It seemed like a win-win situation for everyone, as Craig is nine and might be losing some of his hearing, so he can work closer in with me. The first month or so I had him was just great--he listened to everything I asked and was very cooperative on the field. Then the honeymoon sort of ended, and he probably realized I don't really know what I'm doing so he stopped wanting to lie down and call off, and he even started rushing through the gates to bust up the sheep as though he were an untrained puppy. Basically, he began walking all over me. I tried to get tougher with him, but my authority was probably a bit undermined by my lousy timing as I am learning to drive with him. Last weekend, we went to a Kathy Knox clinic, and he was. just. awful. He ran fine the first time out but I had him in an arena then. The second time, in the big field, he was super tight and when Kathy didn't let him get away with that, he fought her over and over again the full time he was out there. It was horrible. But she did talk to me a bit about not doing super huge outruns or even much driving with him yet and we worked on my timing and my corrections (with Taz as well), and I feel I have a much better idea of how to work with Craig now. We came home and I've worked him twice now, and he's a terrific dog again--very responsive and relaxed, wide, calls off and lies down easily etc. So yay, hopefully I'm on the right path there. One thing Kathy stressed was that I should no longer work with Elaine, who gave me Craig, or even have him see her at all, for a while. My regular trainer also sugested this, but Craig is a quirky dog and I hoped the benefits of having Elaine help us would outweigh the negatives. Craig listens to both of us when we're on the field, but he usually wants to go home with Elaine. Kathy suggested that Craig might not truly see me as his person yet and may be a bit confused about the whole situation--he may think I am just babysitting him or something. This would be undermining our own bonding process, and extend the time it might take for him to really get with me. So I've decided to follow this advice, and not see Elaine for a while. This is going to be difficult, since we have mutual friends and sometimes do workdays, not to mention going to the same trials. I was wondering, what are people's opinions about how long we should not see her? A month? Two months? Six months? Any advice or opinions are very welcome and appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBCLover Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 Laurae 3 years ago I also obtained a dog from my trainer. I never did keep him away from the previous owner. For awhile you could tell he was confused but as time went on he began to listen less and less to the trainer. Now he can't give him a command at all. I am also a novice at trialing. Give it time and the dog alot of you and him time. He will come around. In my opinion BC'S seem to adjust pretty good to being rehomed. Hi all, Sorry, this is long. I can't ever seem to write for advice without feeling like I need to give every single detail. About three months ago, a friend of mine gave me her trained dog Craig, so I could perhaps learn to handle a dog a little faster. The idea was that I wouldn't have to concentrate on teaching this dog, as I am doing with my other (novice) dog Taz. It seemed like a win-win situation for everyone, as Craig is nine and might be losing some of his hearing, so he can work closer in with me. The first month or so I had him was just great--he listened to everything I asked and was very cooperative on the field. Then the honeymoon sort of ended, and he probably realized I don't really know what I'm doing so he stopped wanting to lie down and call off, and he even started rushing through the gates to bust up the sheep as though he were an untrained puppy. Basically, he began walking all over me. I tried to get tougher with him, but my authority was probably a bit undermined by my lousy timing as I am learning to drive with him. Last weekend, we went to a Kathy Knox clinic, and he was. just. awful. He ran fine the first time out but I had him in an arena then. The second time, in the big field, he was super tight and when Kathy didn't let him get away with that, he fought her over and over again the full time he was out there. It was horrible. But she did talk to me a bit about not doing super huge outruns or even much driving with him yet and we worked on my timing and my corrections (with Taz as well), and I feel I have a much better idea of how to work with Craig now. We came home and I've worked him twice now, and he's a terrific dog again--very responsive and relaxed, wide, calls off and lies down easily etc. So yay, hopefully I'm on the right path there. One thing Kathy stressed was that I should no longer work with Elaine, who gave me Craig, or even have him see her at all, for a while. My regular trainer also sugested this, but Craig is a quirky dog and I hoped the benefits of having Elaine help us would outweigh the negatives. Craig listens to both of us when we're on the field, but he usually wants to go home with Elaine. Kathy suggested that Craig might not truly see me as his person yet and may be a bit confused about the whole situation--he may think I am just babysitting him or something. This would be undermining our own bonding process, and extend the time it might take for him to really get with me. So I've decided to follow this advice, and not see Elaine for a while. This is going to be difficult, since we have mutual friends and sometimes do workdays, not to mention going to the same trials. I was wondering, what are people's opinions about how long we should not see her? A month? Two months? Six months? Any advice or opinions are very welcome and appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted August 6, 2007 Report Share Posted August 6, 2007 I would not look at it in terms of a set abstract period of time but in terms of how the dog is reacting to you. When the dog is showing that he really is looking to you for direction and cares what you want, and when you are experiencing confidence that he's looking to you for direction, then you can probably go back to seeing/working with Elaine again, whether that turns out to be one month or six months. You can rarely predict in dog training how long anything will take. Your attitude (and your alertness to the first subtle signs of slippage, which is hard for a novice to develop) is at least as important as his. I've known cases where novices have gone on working with the trainer they got their trained dog from and it's turned out all right, but if Kathy gave you that advice after working with you and Craig she probably had a good basis for doing so, and I think it would be worth trying to follow it. BTW, it sounds as if you were a little mortified by how Craig was at the clinic. I understand the feeling, but I'd urge you to fight hard against it. This is a long road, and really you should WANT your dog to show every fault and problem at a clinic -- that's how you will learn to deal with them. As a result of his showcasing the problems, and Kathy having to struggle with him, it sounds like you learned a lot to help you work with him better in the future. Getting your working relationship down right is much more important than being able to do big faraway things with him right now. JMHO FWIW. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thanks for your input, IdahoBCLover and Eileen. I think it makes sense that the dog will decide. Eileen, I think I wasn't so much mortified that Craig had such a rough time at the clinic as I was very surprised. I'd never really seen him run like that, and it was a wakeup call for me. And I was also a little disheartened--I kind of thought that if Kathy was having a difficult time running him, what chance did I have? But, of course, I believe he fought her so much at least partly because I had been letting him get away with some bad habits and letting him take charge on the field. I wish we'd been able to work him again after our disasterous turn, as I bet he would have been much more responsive the next time. She told me he is the kind of dog that needs to be kept honest, and he will require me to stay on top of him, at least until we establish a bit more confidence in each other. This is a bit daunting to me, as I don't read sheep well yet, and I am always a bit late with my timing. This is partly why she suggested I stop trying to drive with him and stick to the things I am more comfortable/confident with at this stage. I do feel that I learned a huge amount at the clinic, and I am feeling like I have a better idea what to be looking for out there and what to do to better set us up for success. Anyway, thanks again for your wise words, and I'll try to remember to have a bit more patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 One of my first dogs was a trained dog I got from a friend/instructor. This dog would not even work sheep if Mary was around. What we did for lessons for a while was use a two way radio and she watched what I was doing from inside her house. It worked great. That way I was able to get help while working him. Renee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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