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kelpiegirl
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I was very interested in the thread about the dog who may or may not have baggage from an earlier life (is a rescue), and the owner is having a hard time getting what she needs to out of the dog, to progress.

 

Having a down is essential. Having a down is essential. Cannot say that enough. Having a stop at least will work- IF you have a dog who will actually not keep creeping forward. Having a down is essential. Now that that is said:

 

One thing V.E.R.Y. important in stock work is for the dog to respect you (not fear you), and be willing to do what you ask. Working stock, for a keen dog is the easy part- handling corrections and listening while on auto-pilot is not. It can be very telling when you see a dog pulling on leash, or moving ahead of the handler either going to, or in the field. A LOT of what you need to progress in stock work can be achieved before you work stock- relationship-wise.

 

First, work on your dog regarding you as the pack leader. When you walk this dog, do not allow him/her to pull you. When you ask for a down, even in difficult places, require it. It isn't up for debate. You do NOT have to be harsh. Work up slowly to more difficult scenarios. Basically, live with the dog requiring that always in his/her mind, you are pack leader, and when you ask for something, it must be done. And it isn't punitive- just require it be done. You will have a much more grounded dog. Incidentally, this works very well with fearful, or low confidence dogs. Suddenly, they don't have to be pro-active in meeting "scary" people/dogs, they can count on you to handle it.

 

When you and your dog have a good relationship born of the dog allowing you to call the shots, then you can move on to stock work. Of COURSE things can fall apart when the sheep come into view- can you blame them? But, if you have a solid relationship, one which your dog will automatically (for the most part, none are perfect- neither are we) you can start asking for downs while working sheep. There should be no reason to yell or berate your dog when working sheep, if the dog respects you.

 

The reason some dogs will leave, or chose not to work when corrected by someone other than the trainer can be many. First, if the dog doesn't have a relationship with the trainer, they will sometimes chose to avoid the correction- either running from the field, or to the handler. This is where it is very important that the dog not be allowed to run off. It seems counter-intuitive to stop a dog running from it's fear, but if it is not stopped, the dog will have learned that avoiding the correction is his/her choice, and you will have a dog who will not be able to handle any corrections. Corrections can be a voice, or just about anything. Corrections happen in stockwork, with regularity. You need a dog who will be able to handle those corrections. If your dogs is afraid of working with someone, and leaves the field, he/she has learned to avoid the correction, and you will need to work the dog alone, until such time as the dog gets through it, and slowly re-introduce said trainer. BUT, you really need to have the dog listening well to you, and taking your corrections before you can expect the dog to handle corrections from someone else. Of course it all comes down to relationships- you need your dog to have the grit to take fair corrections, and if you have a good relationship, the downs/aah aahs/and get outs will be just like water off a duck's back, and the dog will not be upset, but instead will heed what you are asking for. It is ALL about relationship.

 

My dog has had some of the same issues- not wanting to down- but does this for the trainer. Basically being a numbskull with me, and then with the trainer a star. Then I looked at our relationship- she pulls on the leash, she pushes everywhere (even off sheep), and she doesn't respect me like she should. This is all off sheep. How can it be better ON sheep? No way. So, we spend time now walking with her in the appropriate position- just behind me. Downing anywhere I bloody well ask her to, and basically, not allowing her to run rough shod over me. Now that I have done this, I see a different dog. Imagine my glee when we walked into the field to work sheep, and she did just like all those open Border Collies do- stayed behind, animated, but knew I was the leader. This leads to way way better work in general.

 

 

So, now that I have tired my fingers out, I hope this insight into relationships can help my fellow "having trouble with downs" folks.... I know it has helped me.

 

Julie

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I was very interested in the thread about the dog who may or may not have baggage from an earlier life (is a rescue), and the owner is having a hard time getting what she needs to out of the dog, to progress.

 

Having a down is essential. Having a down is essential. Cannot say that enough. Having a stop at least will work- IF you have a dog who will actually not keep creeping forward. Having a down is essential. Now that that is said:

 

One thing V.E.R.Y. important in stock work is for the dog to respect you (not fear you), and be willing to do what you ask. Working stock, for a keen dog is the easy part- handling corrections and listening while on auto-pilot is not. It can be very telling when you see a dog pulling on leash, or moving ahead of the handler either going to, or in the field. A LOT of what you need to progress in stock work can be achieved before you work stock- relationship-wise.

 

First, work on your dog regarding you as the pack leader. When you walk this dog, do not allow him/her to pull you. When you ask for a down, even in difficult places, require it. It isn't up for debate. You do NOT have to be harsh. Work up slowly to more difficult scenarios. Basically, live with the dog requiring that always in his/her mind, you are pack leader, and when you ask for something, it must be done. And it isn't punitive- just require it be done. You will have a much more grounded dog. Incidentally, this works very well with fearful, or low confidence dogs. Suddenly, they don't have to be pro-active in meeting "scary" people/dogs, they can count on you to handle it.

 

When you and your dog have a good relationship born of the dog allowing you to call the shots, then you can move on to stock work. Of COURSE things can fall apart when the sheep come into view- can you blame them? But, if you have a solid relationship, one which your dog will automatically (for the most part, none are perfect- neither are we) you can start asking for downs while working sheep. There should be no reason to yell or berate your dog when working sheep, if the dog respects you.

 

The reason some dogs will leave, or chose not to work when corrected by someone other than the trainer can be many. First, if the dog doesn't have a relationship with the trainer, they will sometimes chose to avoid the correction- either running from the field, or to the handler. This is where it is very important that the dog not be allowed to run off. It seems counter-intuitive to stop a dog running from it's fear, but if it is not stopped, the dog will have learned that avoiding the correction is his/her choice, and you will have a dog who will not be able to handle any corrections. Corrections can be a voice, or just about anything. Corrections happen in stockwork, with regularity. You need a dog who will be able to handle those corrections. If your dogs is afraid of working with someone, and leaves the field, he/she has learned to avoid the correction, and you will need to work the dog alone, until such time as the dog gets through it, and slowly re-introduce said trainer. BUT, you really need to have the dog listening well to you, and taking your corrections before you can expect the dog to handle corrections from someone else. Of course it all comes down to relationships- you need your dog to have the grit to take fair corrections, and if you have a good relationship, the downs/aah aahs/and get outs will be just like water off a duck's back, and the dog will not be upset, but instead will heed what you are asking for. It is ALL about relationship.

 

My dog has had some of the same issues- not wanting to down- but does this for the trainer. Basically being a numbskull with me, and then with the trainer a star. Then I looked at our relationship- she pulls on the leash, she pushes everywhere (even off sheep), and she doesn't respect me like she should. This is all off sheep. How can it be better ON sheep? No way. So, we spend time now walking with her in the appropriate position- just behind me. Downing anywhere I bloody well ask her to, and basically, not allowing her to run rough shod over me. Now that I have done this, I see a different dog. Imagine my glee when we walked into the field to work sheep, and she did just like all those open Border Collies do- stayed behind, animated, but knew I was the leader. This leads to way way better work in general.

So, now that I have tired my fingers out, I hope this insight into relationships can help my fellow "having trouble with downs" folks.... I know it has helped me.

 

Julie

 

 

 

Julie,

 

GREAT post and one that warrants reading and rereading. You described the situation of me and my now almost 11 year old border collie. I made the mistakes with her that have helped me with my now 3 year old border collie. All the scenarios you described played out to the letter with my older dog, not to be repeated with the younger one. My dog wanted to leave the field with two trainers, one a very well known man from England. Neither of these men were harsh, but for my dog it was a bit much.

The trainer I now go to and who trained my younger dog had my older dog pacing and lying down! Different technique/different approach.

 

I hope the poster with the problem who posted on the Expert section reads this and understands.

 

All may not be lost with her dog. I trialed my older dog without a good stop in some Novice trials for fun, and she works at home doing some chores. But I know now how important all you wrote is in order to get a handle on your dog.

 

Carolyn

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That's a great post, Julie. I agree with the basic premis, that it is all about the handler's relationship with the dog and the dog's ability to take a correction based on that relationship groundwork. As an aside, I presonally don't like a dog walking behind me because then I never know where my dog is (you know the old, turn and look to the right behind you and the dog scoots to the left so you never can *see* the dog--I have one of these and it's annoying). So I don't mind a dog walking in front of me as long as the dog listens and isn't taking off and attempting to go work stock without me.

 

But my main point of disagreement is your comments about the lie down, and it's a small point of semantics perhaps. I don't expect a perfect down on a young/inexperienced dog, ever. They know what "lie down" means (and how to do it) before they ever go to stock, but I don't put them out there and expect to get a lie down or even a stop right away. Even just a sign that the dog is hearing me (maybe all I'll see is a twitch of an ear in acknowledgment that I've said something) in the beginning. I think, as Jeanne pointed out, that oftentimes people try to put *way too much control* way too early on beginner dogs, at a real risk of shutting them down or making them mechanical. Some dogs can take that control better than others, but since I personally try to develop a more natural worker, I really try to encourage my dogs to figure out how to read stock and react/adjust accordingly without too much of my own input (other than a verbal correction when the dog is wrong). Even with the more hardheaded types, constantly demanding things can just make a dog that much harder.

 

For example, just last night I was working one of the youngsters. I never asked for the lie down except when he was directly on balance. He didn't always give it to me. When that happened I either broke his concentration on the fetch (my feeling was that he wasn't deliberately ignoring me but rather that he was so "in to" what he was doing--fetching--that he just didn't really hear me) by moving so he'd move to a new balance point and asking again, or by applying a little more pressure, but it's a very fine line between applying just enough and a little too much. I could tell when I was applying too much pressure to get the down because he would look away. I don't want to apply too much pressure to a dog this young. And since the stock were moving in a controlled manner (i.e., walking, not running) I decided that not insisting on a down was the appropriate course of action for that dog, on that day, at this stage in his training. It's all a very subtle thing, and I guess what I'm trying to say is that it makes me very uncomfortable when people start talking in absolutes. It's not always about a dog being sulky or trying to avoid corrections--sometimes the dog really doesn't understand the correction (or level of correction) during the task at hand. And while dogs do need to be able to take corrections, the person also has to understand the dog well enough to make sure that the correction is not only appropriately timed, but also appropriate in intensity for that dog that day.

 

I started with rescues, so I know what the OP from the other thread is going through. The key is really knowing your dog and then getting inside its head to figure out how you can work *with* the dog to get the most out of it. Not a one-size-fits-all method, but a method tailored to the dog. Learning stockwork with a rescue has its difficulties, but it also can have great rewards, one of the most important being learning how to train a "difficult" (not hard, just difficult for whatever reason) dog. I wouldn't trade that experience for the world, since I think it made me a better handler *and* trainer.

 

I hope I'm making sense here.

 

J.

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hee hee hee Julie :rolleyes:) You should see Lucy and I :D I am Pollyanna INCARNATE. I guess where I was coming from was that if you don't have some sort of stop/down, or at least hesitation, it is really hard to progress. In asking for that, you should always ask for a d/s/h, when the dog will be able to do it- that is on balance, or in such a way that he believes he has the sheep under control. One other thing is a dog who does not move off MY pressure. That is what I have- she moves off my TRAINER'S pressure but not mine. He rarely has to down her. So, it does seem to come down to relationship- the dog needs to trust that you will not allow the sheep to "get away", and that when he is downed, it won't be for long, and there is a big reward coming- as in giving him his sheep. At the Alisdair lessons we went to, I learned that my dog was MUCH happier to down if I released her quickly- such a simple notion. I am just not the best trainer....

 

But, back to Pollyanna- I am the Queen of rationalizing why my dog won't listen- if anything I am too easy on her. I have learned with Lucy that our relationship is the key, the limiting reagent as it were in our progression.

 

Julie

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I learned that my dog was MUCH happier to down if I released her quickly- such a simple notion. I am just not the best trainer....

You should see Lark, Queen of the Microsecond Down. But I don't complain because she could be sticky with just a little too much control on my part, so as long as I get a down, I don't care if she pops right back up (she'll take the very next down I give, if only for another microsecond, LOL!)--at this age I like to see more push and keenness (see, I'm trying to learn from the mistakes I made with Twist). You're right, it really is all about your relationship with your dog and knowing your dog's working style well enough to work within those parameters. Of course Lark is much further along than Pip or Phoebe, so I do expect off-balance stops on her. Now if only she'd stop with the flank dyslexia, but I remember Twist going through the same thing, so I'm just trying to deal with it for now (thank goodness for the instant microsecond downs--give me time to say "No, the *other* come bye! :rolleyes: )

 

J.

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Julie

Can we go over stickiness, say on the outrun?

Oh, and on the flanks- that has to be one of the number one reasons my dog takes what I say with a grain of (or sac) of salt... I am BAD.

Julie

 

You should see Lark, Queen of the Microsecond Down. But I don't complain because she could be sticky with just a little too much control on my part, so as long as I get a down, I don't care if she pops right back up (she'll take the very next down I give, if only for another microsecond, LOL!)--at this age I like to see more push and keenness (see, I'm trying to learn from the mistakes I made with Twist). You're right, it really is all about your relationship with your dog and knowing your dog's working style well enough to work within those parameters. Of course Lark is much further along than Pip or Phoebe, so I do expect off-balance stops on her. Now if only she'd stop with the flank dyslexia, but I remember Twist going through the same thing, so I'm just trying to deal with it for now (thank goodness for the instant microsecond downs--give me time to say "No, the *other* come bye! :rolleyes: )

 

J.

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I hope the OP from the "Ask the expert" thread reads your post, Julie P! Well done.

 

As a rescue person myself, I admit I felt a little defeated (not sure of the word I can use to describe how I felt, but that's close enough) for Jane/CJ & Mitch over on the other thread. I also felt a little like the "go get another dog if you *really* want to learn stockwork" comment was not what she was looking for. She was looking for help with the dog she has now. I understand what JW is saying, and agree with it. But some folks, like me (and Jane, too, I assume), want to play the hand we're dealt. I wonder if Jane had not said Mitch was a rescue, would the advice been different?

 

But, I digress, again, excellent post, Julie.

 

(from the handler of a green dog who also won't lie down :rolleyes: )

 

ETA: Sorry, I'm slow. This was in response to your first post, Julie P.

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What I was trying to say was that I have a dog VERY similar- not a rescue. Some dogs just are they way they are. As Cesar says, we need to move forward. Build a relationship (that's mine, not Cesar's) and then go from there. Every dog has their issues, ain't no one out there with the perfect dog.... Key is analagous to the AA mantra- God grant me the courage.....

Sheep work is not a science, it is a dance, and if you and your dog have a partnership, you can pretty much do anything. That, I think it why I am so pathologically addicted to it- unlike anything else.

 

Oh, and just so we are clear- sometimes you don't have to push for that down- but if you have a pushy on sheep dog, you will, or you will just be very frustrated- been there, done that. So, we worked on our relationship, and life is getting better :rolleyes:

 

And, for those who think I am too tough- watch me train- those who are experienced will hang there heads, grumble and tsk tsk, but as long as we progress, a leeeeetle bit, I am happy. Who knows where we will or will not go- it isn't about that for me- it's seeing how far we go not needing to go far for us :D

 

Okay, for that little ditty, that will cost you all um, what say nothin'!!!

 

Julie

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Well, having come from "training the rescue dog with baggage on stock", and then moving to "buying the well bred working puppy to train" I can relate to both sides of the coin here. In the beginning with June I was at the "play the hand I was dealt" phase. I don't remember if anyone suggested to me that I get another dog, but if they had (early on) I suspect I would have been offended. They didn't have to say it, though, as I was fortunate enough to see good dogs work, and the light was dawning for me. I think it took me... oh... until the first Jack Knox clinic to come to that realization all on my own. But, at that point I still had to use the dog I had.

 

Now that I do have that puppy, the more I grow and learn the more I understand the difference. But part of that has to do with my goals, priorities, and plans. I *plan* to have my own farm in the near future so that I can move my sheep to my own place and start building my flock. I *need* a dog that can do the work.

 

So, if my only priority in regards to working sheep was a fun activity for me and my dog, June would be sufficient. It's amazing how quickly that priority can change, though.

 

All of that being said, I think the expert's heart was certainly in the right place (and I agree with her) - it's just that hearing "your dog might not be very good" is hard to hear, and that's what we hear when it's suggested we get another dog. But, it's all part of that accepting the dog, such as June, for what she is - and that comes with limitations and appreciating her as is and the knowlege that she doesn't have what it takes. It also comes with the knowlege that her advancement is probably complete, even though on some level that's disappointing it's realistic. I came to realize that I was going to need another dog - a better dog - to do the work that I wanted/needed. That doesn't make me love her any less, and doesn't make her a bad dog, or me a bad owner/handler.

 

Now, to follow that up - I think there's a LOT to be learned from this rescue dog. I say learn what you can, live in the moment, and enjoy it. You may come to a point where you want another dog, or you may not. I'm very grateful for June - she's gotten me where I am today... friends, mentors, instructors, my own sheep, and a burning desire to understand the sheep and the dogs! She helped me get my legs under me, and got me totally hooked. That doesn't suck at all.

 

To get myself some back on topic, I'm with Julie P on the being able to see the dog thing. I hate looking around trying to find my dog only to finally realize they're darting around behind me. I don't mind them walking in before me, but I don't want them dashing off either (Nick's struggling with this one at the moment). I also ran into the "too much pressure on the lie down" thing last night. I wasn't as quick as Julie to pick up on it though, but thankfully she helped me. :rolleyes:

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I started with a rescue, too - two, actually, both of whom since they were pups came with very little baggage other than genetics. The rest I put on them myself with no help, lol. So, I'm sort of grateful I didn't purchase a lovely well-bred pup and then do to it what I did to Ben and to some extent, Trim.

 

I think if I had been taken strongly in hand early on, I would have done much better with Ben, no doubt, but he definitely has his limits and his health always would have been a handicap. He was the dog I had and as they say, bàthaidh uisge teth teine, even hot water will put out fire. :rolleyes:

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I want to elaborate on the dog being behind me thing- Lucy is not completely behind me, she is just behind the seam of my jeans, and occasionally darts forward. IF I let her go in front of me, she will take off down the field and fetch the sheep BEFORE I get the gate closed :rolleyes:

Julie

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Now, to follow that up - I think there's a LOT to be learned from this rescue dog. I say learn what you can, live in the moment, and enjoy it. You may come to a point where you want another dog, or you may not.

 

Yup, yup. :rolleyes: I'm already at the point where I *know* I'll want another dog, but since that's not going to happen any time soon, I'm learning all I can with the one I've got. (Laura, I know you already know that, but I hope Jane from the other thread is reading here).

 

And, also back on topic...I do agree that it's all about the relationship. But, I'm not one of those people who cares where my dog walks in relation to me, though. I'm also not actually working him, yet, but he is working well for our trainer. I wouldn't say his lack of a down has anything to do with lack of respect, but the newness of working with the sheep. I'm curious to see how it progresses, since my trainer did get him to do a standing stop last week, which was progress over the week before. Fun stuff!

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I don't really have time to explain, but i'm not so sure i agree with the "relationship" stuff kelpiegirl is talking about here. I think it's more about expectations and timing on stock, rather than "my dog heels" off stock. I work lots of dogs every month where the sum total of my relationship with them is that i unsnapped the leash to let them get to the sheep. I'll try to find time to expand on that later, but i thought i'd throw out some food for thought.

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I want to elaborate on the dog being behind me thing- Lucy is not completely behind me, she is just behind the seam of my jeans, and occasionally darts forward. IF I let her go in front of me, she will take off down the field and fetch the sheep BEFORE I get the gate closed :rolleyes:

Julie

Yeah, I don't mind a dog walking beside me, but for the life of me I'm always asking "Has anyone seen Kat?" and someone will kindly point out that she's right behind me. LOL! She's one of those who weaves back and forth completely behind the handler (I didn't teach her that, someone else did), which you see a lot of at trials. That's what I don't like. I can never find my dog! :D

 

J.

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Robin,

I would suggest the difference is in your experience and ability to read both dogs and stock and your willingness to tailor your training methods to what you see in front of you at the moment (i.e., you're a good trainer).

 

I see relationship more as being able to understand your dog and work within that dog's learning parameters. I think that's what you're able to do within moments of starting a dog working. (Anyway, I think Im just saying the same thing you said above.)

 

J.

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Robin

As I mentioned, Lucy doesn't pull any shenanigans with my trainer- never has. So, I do think there is something to be said for a trainer who begets a listening dog, just by being, well, respectable :rolleyes: Lots of times you see dogs behave better for trainers than their owners. I know my dog likes to ignore me, so I require her to listen. If I don't we will never really progress. And, no, it isn't heeling- okay, I will HAVE to get video of what I am talking about. Or, just look at pretty much all of the open dogs walking to the post these days- that is what I am talking about. I stand firm on the relationship being important between the dog and owner. The dynamics between the dog and a good, wise, and clear trainer, that's a whole other ball game :D

Julie

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Yeah, i think we're thinking the same thing. I hope i wasn't coming across snarky there, didn't mean to. I guess i just hope people don't read this about relationships and think, well that's why my dog won't stop, it's his fault cause he doesn't respect me, when i think 90% of the time the person ought to look to themselves and see if maybe they could improve their timing or understanding of what's going on. It's much easier to just blame the dog.

 

But i'm kinda swamped here so maybe i should have read the whole thread more closely.

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Re: Working with rescue dogs. I really don't think it has to be "either/or." Take Willow for example. She was a pretty decent little dog despite being a rescue of unknown heritage. The best compliment I ever had on her was when Kent Kuykendall was judging at one of Steve Clendenin's novice trials and I had just run her in ranch N/C (we were trialing at P/N level at the time) and he told me we had had the best drive of the day. Willow had her issues. You couldn't raise your voice or allow stress to show through, even if things were going badly. What I learned from Willow was that I had to handle my dog quietly and calmly at all times. We did well in N/N and P/N, but then she just pretty much quit on me. It happened right after she was lost in a state park overnight in TN when the finals were there. I don't know if the two events were related or not, but she's not worked since then.

 

In the case of Laura's June, this was a dog who had been *turned off* from stock, and Laura has done an amazing job, I think, getting any work out of her. This was not a dog anyone expected to work again. And yet she does, to a certain level. But I don't think she's necessarily a fair comparison to the average rescue, because of the fact that she was definitely working bred and was turned off, however that was done.

 

I don't think the OP in the other thread took Jeanne's comments as a personal slap against her rescue dog, as everyone else seems to think. I think the OP recognizes that she likely faces limitations because the dog is a rescue (at least that's the sense I got from her post) but was looking for advice on how to work around that. If you have a rescue, don't have a farm, and aren't planning to trial, then it makes sense that you might want to work with what you've got. We don't know enough from the OP's message to know if the dog is a dud or not. All we know is that she thinks the trainer may be too harsh for her dog. She was asking if a change of trainers might be appropriate. I can tell you that if I had tried to start Willow with the type of trainer who yelled, chased, whacked a stick on the ground, etc., we would have gotten NOWHERE and I might have given up. (I remember one incident early on when I was working at the pen and someone came up and started telling me that I needed to really get on her--voice, stick, whatever, because she was crowding the sheep. This person would not let up and leave me to work with her the way I knew she should be worked. I eventually gave up and walked away. That person then went to my instructor and told her how I couldn't take criticism--a belief that person holds to this day. The truth is I knew enough about my dog to protect *her* from the idiotic advice this person was giving me--someone who didn't know me and certainly had no clue about my dog. Had I done as that person suggested, I probably would have ruined any trust Willow had in me, and that I had worked hard to get.) Now granted, Willow was never a barn burner, but she was good enough for an extremely new novice, and I learned a lot from her. I imagine the OP can do the same if she gets herself in the right training situation.

 

J.

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No, I think that is right too- in my first post, I mentioned you need to ask for a down when the dog is likely to do it- and that is what I pretty much focus on with my dog. She likes to push though, and it probably has something to do with the sheep. I am not blaming my dog, I am blaming me- I would NEVER blame my dog! Crimeny, like I said, watch me train some day...

 

 

Here's a scenario I have encountered, thankfully, less lately:

 

Send the dog. Dog does a nice fetch. She are runny- they come running. Sheep getting close, ask for a down. Dog won't down. Finally get a down- sheep are past me- dog realizes yep, I KNEW she would let them get away. Dog is reinforced that she has to hurry. My fault. Send dog again, this time, ask for a down sooner- after the lift, while the dog is still far enough not to be drawn up to the sheep's derieres. This time I get a down. Odd-, but SO very sensible for my dog. She can't down when she knows she will lose her sheep, but the Pollyanna in me hopes that she will just rate herself, and not feel the need to move so fast. We have trouble in smaller areas.

 

Then, in the big areas- none of this. Send her on a long outrun- could be better, but she senses her sheep's zones, and stays off. Brings them up, at one point pushes to hard, they stop, and turn toward the fence. She sees the error of her ways, and flanks accordingly. Sheep obligingly move on. Sheep are not running, dog not running, dog not up sheep's derieres, and I am amazed.

 

It ain't the dog, it's me- clearly..

 

This is why we do clinics- and I thank God for a patient and keen dog. Some day I will make my dog's life easier, not harder.

 

Julie

 

 

Yeah, i think we're thinking the same thing. I hope i wasn't coming across snarky there, didn't mean to. I guess i just hope people don't read this about relationships and think, well that's why my dog won't stop, it's his fault cause he doesn't respect me, when i think 90% of the time the person ought to look to themselves and see if maybe they could improve their timing or understanding of what's going on. It's much easier to just blame the dog.

 

But i'm kinda swamped here so maybe i should have read the whole thread more closely.

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In the case of Laura's June, this was a dog who had been *turned off* from stock, and Laura has done an amazing job, I think, getting any work out of her. This was not a dog anyone expected to work again. And yet she does, to a certain level. But I don't think she's necessarily a fair comparison to the average rescue, because of the fact that she was definitely working bred and was turned off, however that was done.

 

True, June's not exactly the typical rescue. But, I think the emotional process is relevant though. For me it was a huge shift from a former mindset to being able to evaluate my dogs realistically in relation to the task at hand, and accept my dog inside of my new mental framework. That was tough, and on really difficult days I still occasionally struggle with it.

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True, June's not exactly the typical rescue. But, I think the emotional process is relevant though. For me it was a huge shift from a former mindset to being able to evaluate my dogs realistically in relation to the task at hand, and accept my dog inside of my new mental framework. That was tough, and on really difficult days I still occasionally struggle with it.

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't really change as you go along. As your eyes get more and more open, you can evaluate your dogs in a different light all the time. It doesn't mean you love them any less, but sometimes you have to accept their limitations. I actually think maybe this helps the dogs a bit, as we don't feel quite as disappointed when they let us down. They are what they are.

 

I've actually gotten to where i think of my dogs as a "team" of specialists because they all have strengths and weaknesses. I have the power dog, the "dog sheep like", the "finesse" dog, and the "never runs out of gas" dog. Not that they can't all do most of the jobs i'd have for them, it's just that some are better or worse at them. And i'll keep looking for the dog that can do it all, all the time. :rolleyes:

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Awesome post Robin! That's a big learning curve for me - trying to learn that nothing in this equation is static and that I have to stay in the moment and adjust for it. Sometimes it's hard for me to wrap my mind around it when what was needed just 30 seconds ago is too much now, and so on.

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