I saw him figure it out

[Pippin's person]

Last night while working some wiley sheep (I can't tell you what they were--but they weren't Cheviots or Tunis--still working on stock recognition--they had pretty long wool and were all dark brown and pretty leggy--and not all that dog broke), I watched Hamish actually figure out how to read them. He'd been pushing them, thus splitting them and having to run all over the place trying to cover (and he didn't chase, good dog). Once they'd figured out they could outmanuever him, they were hot to keep doing it (smart sheep).

 

And I was giving him late commands and wrong commands and basically reminding him that he really can't trust me because I'm a bozo, so the instructor told me (politely) to just be quiet and let him learn to read the sheep. So we did and by jove, I could see him figure it out. He pulled himself up, slowed down and managed them. As I have before, I wanted to cry out of sheer amazement. I learned a lot just watching and keeping my trap shut.

 

So, the question--is learning when to provide guidance and when to just let them work a matter of that blasted time and experience or are there specific tricks of the trade that you folks who aren't bozos have amassed that help you know when to leave them to their work.

[KathyF]

Sounds like a good lesson for both of you. It can be so hard for us to keep our mouths shut.

 

Kathy

[stockdogranch]

is learning when to provide guidance and when to just let them work a matter of that blasted time and experience

 

I would say, yes, that's learning to read the dog. To me, in any given situation, it would depend on the dog (and where its head is--biddable or hard-headed, confident or not, how much eye, etc., etc.), and exactly what it was doing in response to exactly what the stock were doing...so, yeah, it's like many things in working these dogs--it depends!

Anna

[Rosanne]

Seems to (inexperienced) me like most of the time when I'm flustered, it's best if I just shut up. . . my instructor will chip in if I should be doing something more

 

I love watching my guy figure it out.

[Carson Crazies]

That's a hard one for me. I had this silly idea a month or so ago that I'd video tape working June (while working her myself). When I went back to look at the video there was lots of video of the sky... the ground... the fence... and none of the dog or sheep. What there was, however, was lots of sound - and most of it was me chattering commands practically non-stop. I was appalled. How could she possibly do her own work with me yakking in her ear and commanding her every step? It obviously wasn't working. So I guess I learned something from it, even if it wasn't what I expected to.

[kelpiegirl]

Good topic!!! Recently, I decided to see if Lucy could handle a looong outrun. I basically wanted to see what was in her tool box- as I would NOT be there to handle any situation that arose. Aside from an "away" command from me, it was all her. I got to watch her figure it out. She was fetching up along a fence line, nicely. Then she pushed too hard- got too far up, and they all turned toward the fence. She responded with taking the pressure off and staying off, and allowed them to move ahead. It was very VERY cool. THAT she was born with. I think many times if we just hush up, it gets done better...

Julie

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I am still a bozo. But, the principle I'd like to learn to put in practice someday is, only put my oar in when a) the dog's wrong, to remind the dog he's wrong and when what you want isn't something the dog should be doing naturally. I'm thinking of it as, the dog should be in control all the time, but I'm learning to guide when needed without taking that away.

 

So, if the dog's driving and the sheep are drifting offline a bit (trial situation), I start with a little correction "Cord!" He'll then stop the drift, good. What is ideal is if the dog's aware that they are offline and corrects on his own. That's nice. But, since I'm a novice and probably stepped in waaaay too late, it's more likely that now Cord will need some help getting them back.

 

When we are at home we practice this. The couple times I've trialed him I don't presently touch the above situation because we're still getting our sea legs trialing together and it adds stress.

 

Another example: the dog is pushing too hard and rattling the sheep. Sometimes you can just use a quick steady and the dog will listen. It happens at a trial or a new place that the dog doesn't adjust right away to new sheep. But if I have to keep doing that I'll go to a correction instead, eventually. Here, where my dogs are supposed to know the sheep, an "Ah-ah!" works well for Cord. But sometimes the sheep are too rattled to respond even when the dog ratchets down the pressure, so you might need another steady or a down even.

 

Then there's times that you are trying to walk a dog through something totally out of the ordinary - getting sheep out of woods or loading a trailer the first few times.

 

I must point out here that I'm only speaking from my experience when I had a fully trained dog and had to work out my issues with using all those neat commands he came with. And he hated being controlled, so we were quite a team for a long time.

 

One thing that helps me learn what the difference is - when I get the chance to watch top handlers work their young dogs. At that level, this is exactly what they are teaching the dog - when to take control, when to take guidance, what to do if problems arise and no guidance is forthcoming.