kelpiegirl Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 I have some weaned ewes, and one in particular is a real PITA. She will be going along fine, then stop and challenge the dog. Could this be because she is "hormonal". They were weaned about 3 weeks ago. No lambs in sight. She is giving me and my dog fits. THanks Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 My guess is that's just who she is--some are always like that. Lucky for you, actually, I really llike having at least several in the group who are not always compliant. Good for the dogs. However, if the dog backs off a bit, will she just move on? May be that the dog is putting a bit much pressure on her. Try keeping the dog back just a bit, Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 My ewes all are the opposite. If anyone is "uppity" with a lamb at foot, they'll be more likely to become humble again once the lamb is gone. Right now I've been forced to put ewes and lambs back together again and some of them are weaning their own lambs. When the lamb runs to them they are more likely to butt the lamb away than care about the dog! It just sounds like she's got an attitude. Is it possible for you to use a couple of dogs together for a bit so one can handle her and the other can worry about the rest of the group? The other option, of course, is simply selling her on or putting her in the freezer. Hair ewe is very yummy. With all the food supply crap going on we are getting to be big fans of mutton here. We had mutton steaks the other night from our four year old ram - delicious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted June 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 These guys were weaned just about 3 weeks ago. For the most part, they are fine. One is however a pita, and will be going back to the former owner to switch her out if she continues to test the dog unendingly. If my dog were say 5 years old, and experienced, AND had the wherewithall to move these guys, I would be happy to keep her. But, since she is so young, I don't want to risk screwing her up. I will give her a couple of weeks, and then reassess. What happens is, we are all moving along nicely, and I turn, thus causing the dog to flank to cover. Said sheep will stop, and turn and face the dog. Dog starts wearing back and forth, and I keep moving, thus bringing the group further away from said sheep. Said sheep notices that her "friends" have moved on, and she gets back to the group. I have also seen where if I get far enough away from the sheep, this sheep will cause the others to stop moving, and then we have a stalemate. I don't mind a little confrontation, but this is becoming old fast. If anyone has ANY advice I would be forever grateful (and so would Lucy) Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 Is the dog flanking around so far that she catches this ewe's eye? I'd still try pushing to dog a bit off of her--sounds like the dog is just getting too close for her comfort. Another thought: put a grip on the dog? Does the dog like to take a shot now and then? Can you get her to do it to this one? Often, once a ewe like this realizes that the dog will not allow itself to be bullied, the game is over. Anna ETA: OR, send her to me--I like 'em like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted June 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 DANG- you trainers think alike!!! That's what my trainer said too. She does move up on them. Now, I had that almost out of her (she likes heads), but when I first started working them, it seemed that when I got after my dog- the sheep took that as weakness? So, I stopped. Yes, basically, she is coming up too far somettimes, and the sheep gives her the evil eye, and stops. I would L O V E to put a grip on her, but how? She does get jazzed when I ask her, but hasn't bitten as a dead stop confrontation. I think she needs this in her tool box, so that she can get out of dead stop situations. yes, I know this may take us back a bit from trial work, but what I *really* want is a dog who can move the sheep where I need them to, no matter what. Julie Is the dog flanking around so far that she catches this ewe's eye? I'd still try pushing to dog a bit off of her--sounds like the dog is just getting too close for her comfort. Another thought: put a grip on the dog? Does the dog like to take a shot now and then? Can you get her to do it to this one? Often, once a ewe like this realizes that the dog will not allow itself to be bullied, the game is over. Anna ETA: OR, send her to me--I like 'em like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I would want to rule out health problems before I went too far down the road with condemning this ewe. Could she have mastitis? Sore feet? Heavy worm burden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Bill They were all weaned/feet done two weeks ago. She has one of the smaller bags. I doubt that is the issue, but will keep an eye out. I think it comes down to this ewe having my girl's number- which I need to change, some how. We did get some shedding work done (no, not splitting a few off) rather, while the dogs held them, we got some of the hair off. That will probably feel better. Julie I would want to rule out health problems before I went too far down the road with condemning this ewe. Could she have mastitis? Sore feet? Heavy worm burden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gail Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 From your description of the situation, I tend to agree with Anna that your dog is probably causing this confrontation. Then, because of lack of experience and/or confidence, she doesn't know how to handle it. If this is the case and you are intending to trial, you would be better off working through the issue with your dog now. If this starts to happen when your dog is flanking or moving into the sheep, your dog is probably too close and is making the ewe want to turn and fight rather than move off with the rest of the sheep. You can also help your dog with this ewe to improve her confidence in handling the situation. Teaching her to grip may also be a solution - but I would be sure that the dog is not causing the situation because that is more important to work through with the dog. As Bill said, I would also rule out health issues because this could also lead to the sheep lagging behind and not wanting to move to keep up with the others. Lambs being weaned 2-3 weeks ago would not rule out mastitis and having feet trimmed 2 weeks ago also would not rule out feet problems. When were these ewes wormed? Good Luck, gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I checked- everything was done three weeks ago (feet, worming, weaning). I do think my dog may be causing some of this, and these hair sheep work differently to some extent, than the woollies we have worked. I think you are right- that she needs to learn this stuff now, and look at it as a challenge, and broadening her horizons as it were. I just am not experienced enough in training to know what is a good thing, and what can really be bad. Julie From your description of the situation, I tend to agree with Anna that your dog is probably causing this confrontation. Then, because of lack of experience and/or confidence, she doesn't know how to handle it. If this is the case and you are intending to trial, you would be better off working through the issue with your dog now. If this starts to happen when your dog is flanking or moving into the sheep, your dog is probably too close and is making the ewe want to turn and fight rather than move off with the rest of the sheep. You can also help your dog with this ewe to improve her confidence in handling the situation. Teaching her to grip may also be a solution - but I would be sure that the dog is not causing the situation because that is more important to work through with the dog. As Bill said, I would also rule out health issues because this could also lead to the sheep lagging behind and not wanting to move to keep up with the others. Lambs being weaned 2-3 weeks ago would not rule out mastitis and having feet trimmed 2 weeks ago also would not rule out feet problems. When were these ewes wormed? Good Luck, gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gail Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Maybe I am not understanding you right, but I guess my point was that weaning, feet trimming & worming 3 weeks ago does not equal all is ok today. Post-weaning mastitis is not uncommon, the wormer could have been ineffective, she could have a new worm load, could have injured a foot, etc in the last 3 weeks. Check the ewe again. I have come to the conclusion that most things, if not repeated frequently, are not "really bad". "Really bad" things are - dog getting slammed repeatedly (and getting injured or losing confidence) - dog getting beat repeatedly (and losing confidence) - sheep getting hurt repeatedly - owner nagging/yelling at dog repeatedly (dog learns to ignore owner) - dog allowed to act silly or stupid repeatedly I think it is much more valuable to dog and owner to work through a problem rather than do nothing out of fear of screwing up. gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 I checked all the ewes today- all are drying well, or ARE dried up. They all move well. In so far as I can tell, they look fine. I tend to believe that since these ewes weren't worked the entire time they had lambs, and a bit before they lambed, they are just a bit out of sorts- that is, not back into working shape. I worked my dog today, and she did very well. I think a BIG part was that she was pushing hard, and coming up to hard on her flanks when covering- this has always been our bugaboo- and these sheep don't take kindly to being pushed so hard. Anyway, we moved them throughout the field, through some gates, and everything went as well as I could have expected. The difference was that I made her stay off them when they were going where I wanted them. Perhaps this will teach us to be better shepherds... Julie Maybe I am not understanding you right, but I guess my point was that weaning, feet trimming & worming 3 weeks ago does not equal all is ok today. Post-weaning mastitis is not uncommon, the wormer could have been ineffective, she could have a new worm load, could have injured a foot, etc in the last 3 weeks. Check the ewe again.I have come to the conclusion that most things, if not repeated frequently, are not "really bad". "Really bad" things are - dog getting slammed repeatedly (and getting injured or losing confidence) - dog getting beat repeatedly (and losing confidence) - sheep getting hurt repeatedly - owner nagging/yelling at dog repeatedly (dog learns to ignore owner) - dog allowed to act silly or stupid repeatedly I think it is much more valuable to dog and owner to work through a problem rather than do nothing out of fear of screwing up. gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted June 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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