Would like some opinions on my Dog's raw diet.

[PaoAndrei]

There's been nothing wrong so far but would like to see the views of others on this to make sure we're on the right path with her food.

 

Ever since we adopted her (february 2013) she has been fed raw chicken (plus a premix to supplement it). Its what the breeder recommended and that's what I stuck to ever since. She's never had a single piece of regular people food except for some fruits (apples, cantaloupes) and some white rice which I mix in once in a while, and also some small sized raw eggs once or twice a week.

 

The premix contains (according to the website of our local supplier):

 

"Our Raw Diet Premix contains: chicken and bones (offal included), beef, fruit, veggies, fish, supplements, 3,6,9 oil (human grade only). All ingredients are obtained from Ontario."

 

So her daily routine is 2 ounces of premix and 2 ounces of chicken. Fed twice a day.

 

So what do you guys think? Is it a good diet? What else can I do to make sure she gets the best food?

 

Lately I've been thinking, to maybe add turkey? Or maybe even go for organic raw food (but is mighty expensive)?

 

Please share your thoughts on this matter

[juliepoudrier]

I see that there's beef in the premix, but honestly I would be leery of feeding only one type of meat. To me a good raw diet should include variety to make sure that the dog is getting all possible nutrients available from the different meat sources. Given how chickens are raised, I also wouldn't want chicken to be the only source of protein for my dog. I'd rotate every type of meat I could find.

 

Caveat: I am not a dedicated raw feeder. I have fed raw to specific dogs in my pack, and they all get raw, meaty bones regularly, but even for my dogs fed kibble, they get a variety of toppers (cottage cheese, eggs, fish, venison, lamb, chicken, etc.) because I think it makes nutritional sense to do so.

 

J.

[Maralynn]

Agree ^^ I fed raw to one dog for several years and that diet doesn't seem like it has nearly enough variety. I'd want to be feeding multiple protien sources (and organ meats) along with the premix. Personally, I would probably add in stuff like cooked lentils or quinoa on occassion as well if I had leftovers from my meal.

[PaoAndrei]

Thanks so much for your input, guys! I will definitely start looking into other meats. Going to check out Global Pet Foods later and hopefully they'll have some of this.

[GentleLake]

I feed raw and I'd never feed such a limited diet. Every reliable source I've seen for feeding raw points out the importance of offering as wide a variety of protein sources as possible.

 

The other potential problem I see here is that unless the chicken portion of her meals is nutritionally complete (i.e. contains the appropriate amount of bones and organs) the nutrient profile is off.

 

I feed whole prey model, which recommends 10-20% bone, 5% liver, 5% other organ (kidney, spleen, pancreas, etc., not heart, which is considered muscle meat) and the other 70-80% muscle meat. If the chicken you're feeding doesn't contain all those elements, then the balance in the premix (assuming it's balanced; many are bone heavy) is going to be insufficient to make up for what the chicken lacks. Even assuming the premix is bone heavy and provides enough to make up the total 10-20%, it probably doesn't have enough organs to make up for it.

 

Another issue is that poultry isn't really a species appropriate food for dogs. Dogs' wolf progenitors eat mostly red meat. Studies of the Yosemite wolves show that 80% of their diet is deer. So while it's OK to be feeding some poultry, it really shouldn't be the bulk of the diet.

 

And dogs really don't need much, if anything, in the way of fruits and vegetables. Dogs are carnivores. Wild canids eat a few berries in season, but that's really about it.

 

Premixes are ground, providing little chewing satisfaction for the dog, unless fed frozen, and ground meat has a much larger surface area for bacterial growth.

 

Premixes are expensive compared to feeding meat from other sources. I feed mostly beef that comes from culled dairy cows. They're not 4D (dead, dying diseased, down), just older cows that aren't producing enough milk to make them profitable. It's very reasonably priced and that allows me to buy other meats, like tripe, mackerel or sardines and the occasional rabbit or cavy that I wouldn't be able to afford otherwise. I'm also able to get duck hearts and necks very cheaply from a foie gras producer for whom it's basically waste.

 

Hunting season's approaching and many deer processors will let you pick through their refuse barrels for scraps.

 

I'd be looking around on Yahoo for a raw feeding co-op near you where you can get more appropriate food for your dog. There's a Carnivore Supply (I think that's the name) on Yahoo that lists many of these co-ops.

 

Here are a couple resources I refer raw newbies to that you might find useful:

 

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/offers/raw-feeding-for-dogs-video-guide/

 

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/06/raw-food-diet-of-pets.aspx

[waffles]

I feed raw but in a totally different way than you describe. 2oz at a time is such a tiny piece of food. And only chicken is not giving your pup any variety. I don't feed premixed commercial raw either but instead feed whole pieces of meat, typically once per day. I source food from all over- butchers, neighbors, farmer down the road, grocery store, hunters, family (my father in law butchers his own deer and friends' with each deer having lots of scraps).

 

My active, fit, 43 lb male eats 16-20 oz a day. I feed 80% boneless meat, 10% edible bone (that's part of bone-in meat, never just a naked bone), 10% organ.

 

Today he had a pork heart with a fish oil pill and some kidney. Yesterday was venison scraps and a piece of beef liver, tomorrow will probably be a chicken quarter. I don't chop anything up,just hand it to him in 16-20 or so oz pieces or if a larger hunk, I take away when I think he has had enough. One of the best parts of feeding this way is he gets to spend 5-20 min, depending on the food, gnawing, chomping and cleaning his teeth. I also feed an egg or two a week, a vitamin pill (though I don't think he needs it, it just makes me feel better), liver, and kidney, and whatever parts of an animal I can find affordably. Every week could be different depending on what I have on hand. But I feed a variety of body parts from chicken, turkey, beef, pork, venison and some rabbit organs from my neighbor. I sometimes feed oatmeal or leftover rice on occasion. I am not super strict on meat only, but don't feed veggies as he just picks them out or leaves them normally.

 

I would definitely recommend feeding more variety. Just think of yourself, you eat a variety of food from day to day, week to week.

[PaoAndrei]

I feed raw and I'd never feed such a limited diet. Every reliable source I've seen for feeding raw points out the importance of offering as wide a variety of protein sources as possible.

 

The other potential problem I see here is that unless the chicken portion of her meals is nutritionally complete (i.e. contains the appropriate amount of bones and organs) the nutrient profile is off. feeding both premix and just chicken.

 

I feed whole prey model, which recommends 10-20% bone, 5% liver, 5% other organ (kidney, spleen, pancreas, etc., not heart, which is considered muscle meat) and the other 70-80% muscle meat. If the chicken you're feeding doesn't contain all those elements, then the balance in the premix (assuming it's balanced; many are bone heavy) is going to be insufficient to make up for what the chicken lacks. Even assuming the premix is bone heavy and provides enough to make up the total 10-20%, it probably doesn't have enough organs to make up for it.

 

Another issue is that poultry isn't really a species appropriate food for dogs. Dogs' wolf progenitors eat mostly red meat. Studies of the Yosemite wolves show that 80% of their diet is deer. So while it's OK to be feeding some poultry, it really shouldn't be the bulk of the diet.

 

And dogs really don't need much, if anything, in the way of fruits and vegetables. Dogs are carnivores. Wild canids eat a few berries in season, but that's really about it.

 

Premixes are ground, providing little chewing satisfaction for the dog, unless fed frozen, and ground meat has a much larger surface area for bacterial growth.

 

Premixes are expensive compared to feeding meat from other sources. I feed mostly beef that comes from culled dairy cows. They're not 4D (dead, dying diseased, down), just older cows that aren't producing enough milk to make them profitable. It's very reasonably priced and that allows me to buy other meats, like tripe, mackerel or sardines and the occasional rabbit or cavy that I wouldn't be able to afford otherwise. I'm also able to get duck hearts and necks very cheaply from a foie gras producer for whom it's basically waste.

 

Hunting season's approaching and many deer processors will let you pick through their refuse barrels for scraps.

 

I'd be looking around on Yahoo for a raw feeding co-op near you where you can get more appropriate food for your dog. There's a Carnivore Supply (I think that's the name) on Yahoo that lists many of these co-ops.

 

Here are a couple resources I refer raw newbies to that you might find useful:

 

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/offers/raw-feeding-for-dogs-video-guide/

 

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/06/raw-food-diet-of-pets.aspx

 

This is great info. Thanks!

 

The chicken I order is grounded but it does have bones in it. And i give her a raw meaty bone once a week for chewing.

Does dehydrated liver have any benefits? 'Cause our supplier offers that. I tried it once and the dog literally drools over it.

[PaoAndrei]

I feed raw but in a totally different way than you describe. 2oz at a time is such a tiny piece of food. And only chicken is not giving your pup any variety. I don't feed premixed commercial raw either but instead feed whole pieces of meat, typically once per day. I source food from all over- butchers, neighbors, farmer down the road, grocery store, hunters, family (my father in law butchers his own deer and friends' with each deer having lots of scraps).

 

My active, fit, 43 lb male eats 16-20 oz a day. I feed 80% boneless meat, 10% edible bone (that's part of bone-in meat, never just a naked bone), 10% organ.

 

Today he had a pork heart with a fish oil pill and some kidney. Yesterday was venison scraps and a piece of beef liver, tomorrow will probably be a chicken quarter. I don't chop anything up,just hand it to him in 16-20 or so oz pieces or if a larger hunk, I take away when I think he has had enough. One of the best parts of feeding this way is he gets to spend 5-20 min, depending on the food, gnawing, chomping and cleaning his teeth. I also feed an egg or two a week, a vitamin pill (though I don't think he needs it, it just makes me feel better), liver, and kidney, and whatever parts of an animal I can find affordably. Every week could be different depending on what I have on hand. But I feed a variety of body parts from chicken, turkey, beef, pork, venison and some rabbit organs from my neighbor. I sometimes feed oatmeal or leftover rice on occasion. I am not super strict on meat only, but don't feed veggies as he just picks them out or leaves them normally.

 

I would definitely recommend feeding more variety. Just think of yourself, you eat a variety of food from day to day, week to week.

 

I meant 2+2 per meal. So she eats 8oz per day.

I wish I could source food from all over. But that would require an immense amount of traveling from where we live. Our supplier is the closest one so we go there. I don't think they're commercial. They seem to genuinely care about dogs. Which is why i guess i'm drawn to them. this is their website: http://www.lovemydograwdiet.ca/

[waffles]

When I say commercial, I meant food made for dogs and sold in stores or as dog food. You can just as easily go to a grocery store and buy chicken, just like the link you supplied does. Just make sure it isn't enhanced/high sodium. I quickly looked, and maybe I missed it, but your supplier doesn't actually list the ingredients. It says chicken and bones, but what percent of each ? It says beef, but what parts of the cow? Fruit and veggies, just as vague. What exact fruits and veggies?

 

you could just as easily go buy the same ingredients (chicken, fruits, veggies, liver at the least for organs, are all sold at groceries store, I would assume one is near you for your own needs) then you would know what you're actually feeding and you would save money. Or at the least, supplement with other meats while continuing with the suppliers premix. Most grocery stores will have pork butt or pork shoulder for somewhat cheap, you can chop it up if you wanted, and use that with the premix to add variety.

 

I guess, what I am saying, is that you don't need to rely on a dog food supplier, and you could if you wanted, feed your dog raw on your own. everyone is different in what they desire, but I do hope this helps you!

[GentleLake]

I agree -- not nearly enough information on ingredients for my liking. I'd need to know the percentages, as well.

 

I understood your dog is getting 4 oz. twice a day for a total of 8 oz. It seems pretty low to me, too (mine are pretty easy keepers and get around 12 oz. plus or minus per day). But if she's not too thin, go with what works for you.

 

I'd been feeding once a day, and have recently tried dividing it into 2 meals. I think I'm going back to once a day. They seemed more satisfied with one larger meal than 2 smaller ones. Now they're bugging me to feed them twice a day instead of just once.

[PaoAndrei]

When I say commercial, I meant food made for dogs and sold in stores or as dog food. You can just as easily go to a grocery store and buy chicken, just like the link you supplied does. Just make sure it isn't enhanced/high sodium. I quickly looked, and maybe I missed it, but your supplier doesn't actually list the ingredients. It says chicken and bones, but what percent of each ? It says beef, but what parts of the cow? Fruit and veggies, just as vague. What exact fruits and veggies?

 

you could just as easily go buy the same ingredients (chicken, fruits, veggies, liver at the least for organs, are all sold at groceries store, I would assume one is near you for your own needs) then you would know what you're actually feeding and you would save money. Or at the least, supplement with other meats while continuing with the suppliers premix. Most grocery stores will have pork butt or pork shoulder for somewhat cheap, you can chop it up if you wanted, and use that with the premix to add variety.

 

I guess, what I am saying, is that you don't need to rely on a dog food supplier, and you could if you wanted, feed your dog raw on your own. everyone is different in what they desire, but I do hope this helps you!

 

I guess I've never questioned the ingredients since its lead to nothing but great words from the vet. But she's still young and want to only enhance her health in the long run.

 

In terms of doing different meats for my dog, do I serve the same amount of say lamb or pork that I do with the chicken? Also would her stool change? She always has that solid stool that turns white and wonder if it'll get softer.

 

I've thought about getting meats from the local stores like walmart or superstore (canadian). But i dont think they are antibiotic or hormone free.

[PaoAndrei]

I agree -- not nearly enough information on ingredients for my liking. I'd need to know the percentages, as well.

 

I understood your dog is getting 4 oz. twice a day for a total of 8 oz. It seems pretty low to me, too (mine are pretty easy keepers and get around 12 oz. plus or minus per day). But if she's not too thin, go with what works for you.

 

I'd been feeding once a day, and have recently tried dividing it into 2 meals. I think I'm going back to once a day. They seemed more satisfied with one larger meal than 2 smaller ones. Now they're bugging me to feed them twice a day instead of just once.

 

Last time she went for her checkup she was 37 lbs. and the vet said that she is really fit. I'm not entirely sure if that is skinny or not because i cant really tell through all the fur. She is slender though I think.

[juliepoudrier]

She could be doing okay on what you're feeding now, but you need to consider the long-term health consequences of such a limited diet. In my opinion a poorly designed/fed raw diet is worse for a dog than a kibble diet. If you're going to feed raw, you might want to join a raw feeders group (Check Yahoo groups). Organic/antibiotic free/hormone free meats may be harder to find, but many grocery stores now carry some, and your supplier is sourcing the chicken from somewhere. Also wild caught (venison, elk, bear, duck, etc.) is naturally hormone and antibiotic free.

 

If you join a raw feeders group you might even be able to find co-ops in your area that could help you with sourcing a variety of meats.

 

J.

[GentleLake]

Both lamb and pork are fattier meats than chicken, so I'd introduce them slowly to avoid looser stools.

[GentleLake]

You tell a dog's condition by putting your hands on her. You should be able to easily feel ribs and spinal protuberances without having to push in to find them.

[cwb3]

You know were I a rich man I'd hire several of you to be my chef. . .oh yeah and also feed my dogs!

[waffles]

Last I knew, here in the US, hormones are not legal for turkey, chicken or pigs and haven't been for decades. I would assume canada would be the same. I feed a lot of wild game and meat from a direct to market farmer but also feed a lot of meat from the grocery store, a restaurant supply whole saler, and I feel perfectly comfortable doing that. But everyone is different, I just could never afford meat labeled organic.

 

Also if her stools are hard and white, there is way too much bone in her diet. I would suspect the premix is heavy on bone, and you could try feeding only boneless meat for her supplement meat. I only feed a bone in meal about three times per week.

[PaoAndrei]

It takes a day or 2 for her stool to turn white. Its never hard, just firm. Gonna have to ask around the store about their products the next time I'm there.

 

Here's another question for you guys: Is it okay for raw fed dogs to still get doggy biscuits as treats? or those tiny treats for training?

[teresaserrano]

I guess I've never questioned the ingredients since its lead to nothing but great words from the vet. But she's still young and want to only enhance her health in the long run.

 

In terms of doing different meats for my dog, do I serve the same amount of say lamb or pork that I do with the chicken? Also would her stool change? She always has that solid stool that turns white and wonder if it'll get softer.

 

I've thought about getting meats from the local stores like walmart or superstore (canadian). But i dont think they are antibiotic or hormone free.

Her stool should not change with different proteins. There's the ocasional dog that doesn't react well to a specific protein, and that's why it's advisable to introduce diferent meats one at a time, and stay with that meat for a week or two, to make sure it agrees with the dog.

As for getting meats at the local store, you eat it, don't you? I mean, sure we want the best for our dogs, but if we and our kids eat it, why can't the dogs?

[simba]

I don't like the practice of feeding antibiotics at low levels constantly to livestock, that is just stupid. But 'antibiotic-free' freaks me out, as a label. I want to know that the animal had adequate vet care throughout its life, and sometimes that might mean an antibiotic.

[GentleLake]

If your dog isn't reacting badly to the grains in the training treats, it's fine. There are some very rabid (pun intended) raw feeders who won't allow a bit of grain in their dogs' diets, but I'm not one of them. I often use kibble for training treats. Nice and small and easy to handle.

 

If her stool's changing to white in a couple days, then the bone content is probably OK. And it sounds then like the bone content of your premix might be high if it's only meat you're feeding along with it.

 

I'd still want to know how much bone is in the premix. Too little bone can be a problem long term, so you really should have a good estimate of how much bone and how much organ is in the premix.

 

Stool can change a little with different meats. Just think of your own; it varies somewhat depending on what you've eaten.