Shoofly Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hey - I have a bit of a sheep mystery and wondered if anyone else might have seen it. Asked some old timer sheep people this weekend and no one else had any good ideas, but thought i'd ask. Last thursday one of my nicest ewes came up with bottle jaw. Seemed weird since i don't have a huge problem with worms and i'd just wormed 2 weeks ago with tramisol. Weight is good, feels fine, color of eyelids and gums was okay but i tossed some cydectin in her thinking that would do the trick. Next day, still swollen but not as much so i put some valbazen in her, thinking it would be good to toss in a white wormer for good measure. I went off for the trial over the weekend and my sheepsitter kept an eye on her, and the swelling goes up and down. Very little swelling in the mornings, a fair bit by the evenings. I checked her last night and she still looked like she had the mumps, then this morning very little swelling at all. I put her off by herself overnight and she's still off pasture today so i'm curious to see how she'll look this evening. I had my vet do a fecal today and it's totally clear. This is all very weird since it's the anemia that causes bottle jaw but for all i can see, this ewe isn't anemic and isn't wormy. I'm sending her off tomorrow so this is all probably academic, but i'm really stumped about this. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Robin, Are you subscribed to sheep-L? If so, maybe post this there? If you want me to post it there, I'd be happy to do so. Lots of sheep experts there.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I don't know if it's the same or not, but I had a ram, years ago, that slowly developed a swelling under his jaw/throat area (I don't remember clearly, it was probably 20 years ago), but it would come and go. He seemed fine, but eventually began to lose weight and then lost the wool along his back. He just slowly declined until he died. Everyone told us it was worms. We wormed him with every wormer known at the time and none helped. I think it went on for a year or so before he died. We didn't have him posted or anything (seriously doubt it would have done much good with the local vets), but I think he had some sort of cancer. A breeder I talked to said that he had the same thing happen - rare, but he'd had a few over a lifetime of raising sheep and he had a fairly large flock. He didn't know what it was (and had had some posted in the past), but felt it was something like that also. Liver flukes will cause the swelling like that, but the valbazen should have taken care of those. What about lumpy jaw - is that right - I'm thinking of something where they get cheesy abcesses, I think it is - just vaguely remember hearing about it at Purdue (I'm an ANSC, but I graduated in '87 - memory isn't that good, unfortunately). Probably doesn't help, but those are a few ideas. I guess if you're shipping her out and none of the others have similar problems, just write it off as one of those things and be thankful it didn't spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 It's not CL, or lumpy jaw or cheesy gland (all the same thing) - i've seen that before. Tonight she had only a bit of swelling and i checked her color again and it's still very good. Everything i've found on bottle jaw basically points to anemia, regardless if it's caused by worms or other causes, yet this ewe sure doesn't look to be anemic. I think the best guess is some sort of allergic reaction or bite or something. Maybe sheep gremlins... Julie - used to be a member but the noise ratio was just too high for me. Thanks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Dog Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Johne's disease can cause jaw swelling and probably wouldn't be picked up in a fecal. Or maybe some other bacterial infection. Any lacerations in or around the mouth? After culling it wouldn't hurt to disinfect areas where the sheep gather just to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Johnnes will cause bottle jaw after some pretty serious deterioration of the sheep, and there's diarhea as well, at least as i read about it. The Johnnes causes anemia which causes bottle jaw, and this ewe is a chubby picture of health except for the swelling, and has been raising twins. That's why it's such a mystery, the lack of anemia, or at least noticeable paleness to membranes. No lacerations found. Couldn't find a snakebite. I wonder if she didn't eat a bee. She's gone now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 If she is fat after raising twins, then I'd guess she just has a tendency to lay on fat. Fat can develop under the jaw in very easy keepers - it just springs up overnight, it seems. It can change with the heat of the day, too. It really looks exactly like bottlejaw. CL is the other possibility - but as you say, by the time you see a popped internal abcess like that, the ewe is usually looking pretty rough. Not always, though, so keep an eye out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Dog Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Thanks for the update. Wish you could have discovered what was wrong if just for curiosity's sake. The swelling coming and going seemed really odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Someone sent me private email that said she'd had a similar thing happen a few times, in healthy, non-wormy sheep and that it would just clear up after a few days, and that she believed it to be a bite or allergic reaction too. I agree that the swelling coming and going was odd as well. But the reason the swelling settles where it does is from walking around head down grazing and at night the ewe was resting. Curious, curious, for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Robin -- I'm hoping I read the timeline wrong here. Withdrawal on Cydectin is seven days in sheep, I think. And Valbazen is seven days. If you sent her through a sale ring, she should be out of both of those withdrawal periods and ready for immediate slaughter. Edema under the jaw without anemia is a new one on me. Bottle jaw certainly comes and goes in anemic sheep, depending on the posture of the animal. Edema settles in the lowest point on the animal, which is the pocket under the lower jaw when it's grazing. When it's lying down or standing, the edema will shift to the chest cavity, where it's not so readily apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Bill - she didn't go to a sale ring or stockyard, so no worries there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Robin, I had a fat, healthy ewe develop a lump between her jaw and chin after being bitten by HUGE horse fly. I've not noticed this insect population much before now, but they have been really bad in my area recently. The poor sheep are going crazy trying to fight off these monsters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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